The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion

Legend of the Five Rings card from Ivory Edition, Promotional–Ivory, Twenty Festivals, Promotional–Twenty Festivals

Card Type

Stronghold

Starting Family Honor

1

Clan

Scorpion

Card Text

Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
(When going second, you get +1PS and other players have -1 maximum hand size)

Legality

A Brother's Destiny (Ivory Edition), A Brother's Destiny (Twenty Festivals)

Deck

Pre-Game

Notes

This Stronghold may not be used in Twenty Festivals Extended formats.

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: Couldn't find an answer to this, so I could use some clarification.
  Can School of Wizardry be named by the Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion? Or is that a trait on School of Wizardry that allows you to pay 0 for a Human Shugenja by bowing it? I ask since the rules text on School of Wizardry does not state that it is a Dynasty Action/Ability. Thank you.
  School of Wizardry 7G : When paying for a Human Shugenja, he enters play for 0 Gold.
  Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion 7 PS 4 GP 1 FH Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
  A: That's right; it's a trait, not an ability/action, so The Shadowed Estate could do nothing to negate it. Brook Cunningham, "The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion + School of Wizardry", 21 Sep 2015
• Q: RE: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=114143
  The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
  FROM Some things check to see if other effects, actions, or targeting come “from” a given source. The source is the card that the effect, action or targeting is printed on, or the rulebook if it is printed there.
  Since the tactical advantage ability is not printed on the tactician, wouldn't that mean that its effects are *from* the rulebook, and hence would not interact with The Shadowed State?
  Thanks!
  A: You might want to read on a little further: Effects of traits and abilities given to other cards, copied from other cards, or on created cards, come from the card they are on.
  See also On. Alex Jones, "Scorpion Box and tactician", 15 Jun 2015
• Q: Can you use a kata's ability to put into play even though its already in play?
  I have this scenario: My opponent playing shadowed estate of the scorpion appears to have intention to destroy my personality with a lot of attachments. He uses the Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion ability and names Diligent care.
  May i use the open ability of diligent care so it can use up the "negate" of the shadowed estate? this way it will allow me to use the interrupt of diligent care once he destroys my personality.
  A: This is correct. Diligent Care does not need to be in your hand for you to use its Open action (tho of course it will fail to be "put in play" again), and this will "use up" the Shadowed Estate's negation for the turn. Jon Palmer, "Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion + Kata Diligent Care", 15 Jun 2015
• Q: Are non-experienced cards and experienced cards considered to have the same name for the purposes of The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion? If someone uses The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion and names a card that has a non-experienced and an experienced version in play, will it affect all copies of cards with that name or will the person have to specify if they are talking about the experienced personality or the non-experienced personality?
  A: As long as they have the same name, they have the same name no matter their experience level. So all version of Shiba Tsukimi, nonexperienced through experienced 5, have the same name and are covered by one usage of The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion. However, if the cards are considered the same Personality for experience purposes but have different names (for instance, Bayushi Tenzan vs The Sorrow) those are cards with different names. Jon Palmer, "The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion and non-experienced/experienced personalities.", 5 Mar 2015
• Q: If i have 2 Agasha Beirus in play and my opponent names him with The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion, to get through the first negation can i announce his action, bow him, target a fortification in my discard pile, but choose to pay 0 gold since the action will be negated anyway? Do i have to pay the cost equal to the targeted fort because of the good faith rule?
  Agasha Beiru Text Earth Open, bow, (*) : Recruit a target Fortification in your discard pile (attach it to any of your Provinces). Give its Province a +1 strength Wall token.
  A: Per the update to the Good Faith Rule, you would need to pay the gold for a legal target Fortification (it doesn't have to be the one you actually want to bring in with the next action, if you have a cheaper one to burn the Shadowed Estate's ability). Jon Palmer, "Agasha Beiru and cost", 5 Jan 2015
• Q: As both Misato cards are being treated as different personalities from storyline, these are not supposed to be treated as the same card as noted in the oracle memo. As they are supposed to be treated as different cards, why would they not be treated as different cards for targeting purposes. I ask due to both the ruling on Togashi Gozato, and for any other card such as the Scorpion stronghold, and any other cards that require you to name a personality
  Shouldnt it be that Togashi Gozato should only be affected by the Love Letter personality, either through a note similar to the Misato's oracle notes or by errata, since that was obviously the original intended interaction.
  If not does this mean that the Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion gets to potentially negate six cards, or does the stronghold require you to Name Matsu Misato, the Hatamoto
  If you then have to state the full name of Misato with the subtitle, is that required for the targeting of any subtitled card?
  A: Because, while they are two distinct Personalities, they are still both titled "Matsu Misato".
  Please do not make claims as to "obvious" designer intent. The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion can potentially negate six cards in your deck, if you play with three copies of the Ivory Matsu Misato and three copies of the TNO Matsu Misato. For purposes of naming cards, the title of the card does not include the subtitle, and you should not use it for an effect such as the Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion. Jon Palmer, "Misato continued", 29 Oct 2014
• Q: Hello,
  Let's say I play Victory through Deference (as a battle action) and my opponent negates it with the Sun Returns.
  Can I still invest 1g to get the card draw? I ask because invest is technically a trait and I don't think we have any cards in the current environment that can stop traits from triggering.
  Would the answer be different if they used the scorpion box?
  Just trying to understand mechanically where Invest on Fate cards falls.
  Cheers!
  Victory Through Deference: Invest : Draw a card. Battle/Open: Remove one to three non-Ring cards in discard piles from the game. You may target a Personality and remove one of his abilities or boldface keywords (this turn). Take an additional action.
  The Sun Returns: Interrupt: Bow your target unbowed Tactician. Negate the effects of a Battle or Engage action.
  The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion: Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
  A: The Sun Returns would also negate the card draw.
  Comprehensive Rules, page 55, "An Invest cost on a Strategy.... If it creates distinct effects, as opposed to just modifying the action, the are added to the action's effects, resolving last, and become part of the action." Brook Cunningham, "Negate a Strategy + Invest", 9 Sep 2014
• Q: I have question about the trait of shadowed estate that other players have -1 maximum hand size. I have hand size of 7 card then i draw in open or battle of my turn what will happen to card i draw. That i have to hold until discard phase turns or i will discard it already
  A: You only need to discard down to your maximum hand size at the end of your turn. Jon Palmer, "The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion vs Card draw open/battle", 23 Jul 2014
• Q: From this previous thread: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=108608&p=1428055&hilit=cavalry+escort#p1428055
  Sorry I'm asking again, but the answers to that question were not particuarly clear and I'm playing a kotei next week and this situation is extremely likely to happen.
  My question is: If the scorpion player names "Cavalry Escort" with the stronghold, can I play Cavalry Escort, pay 0g so it's negated and then play another copy of Cavalry Escort (paying full price)?
  I know I can play the second copy regardless of what I pay the first time. What I need to know if it's possible for me to pay 0g the first time to absorv the negation of TSEotS.
  Cavalry Escort: Battle, : If this Follower is in your hand, Recruit your target Personality (paying all costs) for 5 more gold and attach this Follower (ignoring all costs) to him.
  The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion: Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
  A: Yes. You may pay 0G the first time, which will discard the Cavalry Escort and use up the Scorpion negation. Jon Palmer, "Cavalry Escort + Shadowed State - Cont.", 19 Jun 2014
• Q: Hello guys sorry to bother you again with our great scorpion stronghold !
  If i name "Dying Remonstration" with The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion and my opponent choses to play one anyway, will the seppuku take effect ? I know with "Kitsuki Judgement" in a similar situation the seppuku did occur, but the question wasn't raised in IvE.
  Relevant card texts :
  The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
  Dying Remonstration Political Open: Your target unbowed Human Personality commits seppuku. A target player loses Honor equal to the Personality's Personal Honor or 4, whichever is lower.
  Thank you for your time .
  A: Yes, the seppuku will occur, but not the other effects of the action. Seppuku effects remain un-negateable, as they were in the past. Brook Cunningham, "Shadowed Estate + Dying Remonstration", 16 Jun 2014
• Q: Short story : i name Cavalry Escort with the Shadowed Estate open. My opponent declares an attack and in a battle (with presence) tries to use the battle from a cavalry escort in his hand.
  Relevant texts : The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion Tireless Open: Name a Fate card, or name a Dynasty card in play. Negate the effects of the next action from a card with that title.
  Cavalry Escort Battle, : If this Follower is in your hand, Recruit your target Personality (paying all costs) for 5 more gold and attach this Follower (ignoring all costs) to him.
  I have trouble deciding between the two following endings :
  - Opponent pays nothing, shows his Cavalry Escort, takes it back in his hand, and can do it again later this turn, successfuly this time. - Opponent pays nothing, shows his Cavalry Escort, then discards it.
  The following linked ruling is about the Ring of the Void, and seams to imply there is a clean up phase for cards that have no know destination : viewtopic.php?f=59&t=106047&p=1397302&hilit=shadowed+estate#p1397302
  Hence i think the second ending is the right one, but not understanding the quoted ruling i have trouble knowing if it applies. I didn't find relevant "clean up" phase in IvE comprehensive rules (i know it existed somewhat in EE in the old action resolution mode).
  Thank you for your time .
  A: If an action is taken from a card in hand (eg a Strategy, or an attachment with an ability that begins "If this XXX is in your hand"), it is discarded after the action ends unless it is now in play.
  If Cavalry Escort has been named by The Shadowed Estate, the effect that puts it into play will fail, so the Cavalry Escort will be discarded when the action ends. Alex Jones, "Cavalry Escort + Shadowed Estate", 10 Jun 2014
• Q: Since this only answered the question for most plausible situations, but not all possible ones I feel compelled to ask.
  Can The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion prevent The False Nimuro from using Come One at a Time?
  A: Yes, in one of the very few instances where a created card is actually given a title by the effect that created it (The False Nimuro is one of only a handful of such created cards), then it could be named by the Shadowed Estate. Brook Cunningham, "Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion and Created Personalities", 18 Apr 2014
• Q: Can the Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion ability target a created card. For example the Monkey created by Kitsune Yamazaru? Are created cards considered dynasty cards since, in this case, they are personalities and personalities are dynasty cards?
  A: Small, but important point: The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion doesn't target.
  With the Stronghold's action, you name a Dynasty card in play, however created cards, such as those from Kitsune Yamazaru's Interrupt, do not have a title by default, and thus cannot be named. Ben Higgins, "Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion and Created Personalities", 17 Apr 2014
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=106750
  So now with the new Good Faith Rules Going Back to the Original Question.
  • Favor actions require that you control the Imperial Favor, or have an alternate effect, substitute, or waiver (“need not”) for discarding the Favor.
  Does this include the negation of the Shadowed Estate if my opponent has announced a favor action?
  A: No.
  Negation means that the effect does not happen. "Need not" means that you are not required to attempt to create the effect. The Shadowed Estate does not create any effect that says you need not discard the favour, just that any attempt from the action's effects to do so will fail. Alex Jones, "Favor actions + The Shadowed Estate of the Scorpion", 17 Mar 2014