Civil Discussion

Legend of the Five Rings card from Death at Koten, Twenty Festivals

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Card Text

Political Open: Target your unbowed Courtier. After each time any player assigns, he loses 1 Honor for each unit he assigned, up to three units.

Focus Value

2

Legality

A Brother's Destiny (Twenty Festivals), Destroyer War (Celestial), Race for the Throne (Samurai), War of the Seals (Onyx Edition)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: RE: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=114110
  So, one of the clauses in Civil Discussion falls under the "for each" rule. But I think what the original asker was concerned about was not that clause. He's curious about this one I think (having had this conversation on FB already): "After each time any player assigns"
  If I play Mercantile Conflict, then my opponent attacks and he and I BOTH assign, will Mercantile increase the honor losses to both of us? If so, how many of Mercantile's "increases" does that use up?
  A: If both players assign, Civil Discussion will cause a loss to each of you, Mercantile Conflict will increase the loss to each of you, and that will use of both of Mercantile Conflict's increases. Mercantile Conflict counts losses, not "cards that cause losses". Jon Palmer, "RE: Mercantile Conflict and Civil Discussion", 15 Jun 2015
• Q: Mercantile Conflict is played, and then Civil Discussion. Both players assign units to a battle. Does Civil discussion use up both of the honor loss increases from Mercantile, or does it just use up 1? Why?
  Thanks in advance. Couldn't find an answer on this.
  A: Civil Discussion creates one honour loss, as described under For Each: The term “for each”, such as “Gain 1 Honor for each Samurai you control,” creates a single effect rather than numerous separate effects. In this instance, a player controlling 3 Samurai would gain 3 Honor at once, not 1 Honor three separate times.
  This honour loss is then increased by one by Mercantile Conflict. Alex Jones, "Mercantile Conflict and Civil Discussion", 12 Jun 2015
• Q: regarding this post RE:Civil Discussion and assignment
  I wanted to clarify something I found confusing in Zen's reply:
  Zen wrote: "Assignment during retribution will trigger Civil Discussion's effect, but because Retribution limits assignment to one unit, players couldn't lose 6 honor."
  My question is, does the phrase "and you may only assign one unit." in Retribution apply to only the person playing Retribution, or does it apply to both players?
  Zen's reply seems to suggest that it applies to both players, but I wasn't able to find that when I searched. Should Zen's reply be worded more to the affect of "Assignment during retribution will trigger Civil Discussion's effect, but because Retribution limits assignment to one unit, the person that played Retribution couldn't lose 6 honor."?
  Retribution Reaction: After the end of an Attack Phase in which you were the Defender: Create an additional Attack Phase of your own in which you must choose the previous phase's Attacker as the Defender. Neither player may invite allies and you may only assign one unit. Give the Personality and each Follower in that unit +1F after it assigns.
  A: The one unit limit only applies to the player using Retribution. Bad use of plurals in previous answer. Sorry. Zen Faulkes, "Civil Discussion and assignment", 16 Sep 2009
• Q: Civil Discussion: the assignment during the infantry maneuvers segment and during the cavalry maneuvers segment are 2 differents times a player assigns? Then, a player could loses up to 3 honors during the infantry maneuvers segment and up to 3 during the cavalry maneuvers segment?
  A: Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Civil Discussion and assignment", 16 Sep 2009
• Q: When I play a Retribution, unit's assignments make their players to lose again up to 3 honors (or up to 6 if the first question's answer is yes)?
  A: Assignment during retribution will trigger Civil Discussion's effect, but because Retribution limits assignment to one unit, players couldn't lose 6 honor. Zen Faulkes, "Civil Discussion and assignment", 16 Sep 2009
• Q: Civil Discussion Open: Target your unbowed Courtier: After each time a player assigns he loses 1 honor for each unit he assigned, or 3 whichever is lower.
  Heated Discussion Political Limited: Target another player's Personality. Create a battlefield and assign him to defend there. Assign any number of your Courtier or Magistrate Personalities to attack there. The Defender may then assign any of his Courtier or Magistrate Personalities there. Fight the battle. During the battle, before any Personality is destroyed, dishonor him instead.
  If I play Civil Discussion and Ambush/Heated Discussion, do I lose the honor for the first two personalities as I'm the one who assigned them? Or do both played lose the honor for their own personalities?
  A: For the intial assignment, the person who played Heated Discussion would lose the honor via Civil Discussion's text. If the Defender decided to assign additional Courtiers/Magistrates to the battle, he would lose honor for each one he assigned, up to 3. Dan Jacobson, "Civil Discussion and Ambush/Heated Discussion", 7 May 2009
• Q: In regards to this:
  viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75616
  If I play Denounced and then attack, and my opponent defends with 3 personalities, and since Denounced is before the honor loss, I assume it works like this: Denounced applies to each defender, making an honor loss of 6. Since 3 is lower, that honor loss would be applied and Denounced would raise it to a 4 honor loss. Is this correct?
  A: Correction: Civil Discussion will figure out which honour loss to give, then Denounced on Stage modifies it. Alex Jones, "Civil Discussion & Denounced on Stage", 6 May 2009
• Q: (W)hat is the timing of determining what honor loss is lower?
  A: Denounced on Stage is before Honor loss (card text), so it applies after Civil Discussion decides the magnitude of Honor loss it creates. [Fixed] Zen Faulkes, "Civil Discussion & Denounced on Stage", 5 May 2009