Creating Order

Legend of the Five Rings card from Forgotten Legacy, Promotional–Ivory

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Keywords

Unique

Card Text

Battle/Open: Target a Personality. Either negate all current and new Force bonuses and penalties on him from actions, or straighten his unit.

Focus Value

4

Legality

A Brother's Destiny (Ivory Edition), Age of Conquest (Emperor), Destroyer War (Celestial)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: Just want clarification on the following situation:
  Player A attacks with Nikaru (9F). Player B defends with Tametaka basic (4F). Play goes as follows:
  No engage actions. B: Uses Tametaka's ability to give Nikaru -4F (Nikaru now at 5F) then moves home. A: Plays Creating Order (or Breaking the Rhythm) to negate the force penalty (now back to 9F)
  Could player B now also play Breaking the Rhythm to negate the force bonus created when player A used Creating Order/Breaking on Nikaru? And if so would that now reset Nikaru to 5F.
  Just a situation I was pondering one night.
  A: No. The removal of a penalty is not a bonus, and the removal of a bonus is not a penalty. Jon Palmer, "Creating Order, Breaking the Rhythm & Force penalties", 8 Apr 2014
• Q: Concerning this ruling: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=107555 Slightly different, but can Creating Order negate an Invest that gives a force bonus such as Yoritomo Toganin?
  A: No, as Invest is not an action. Jon Palmer, "RE: Fire Tokens , Creating Order, Breaking the Rythm", 7 Apr 2014
• Q: The ruling on Force bonus tokens has caused me to question. If you are able to negate permanent force bonus tokens with Creating Order or Breaking the Rhythm wouldn't that also negate bonuses from weapons? If it does not negate weapon bonuses then where is the differentiation between permanent tokens/weapons?
  Oh and new question, Can you Reprisal twice if you were down 2 provinces. What if they are played at two different provinces?
  A: Weapons now give modifiers rather than bonuses, specifically for this reason.
  Yes, you may Reprisal twice if you're down two provinces, and they can be played at the same province or different provinces. Jon Palmer, "My Question - Tokens,CO + BtR, and Reprisal", 7 Apr 2014
• Q: I give a force penalty of 3 to a 7F berserker. I then ranged attack him for 4. If my opponent delays the battle action with HotF, then removes the penalty with Creating Order, will the personality survive when the delayed effect happens?
  A: Halls of the Forgotten does not delay actions, it delays the effects on the Berserker from an action.
  The effect on the Berserker from a Ranged Attack action is the destruction effect. The Ranged Attack's strength is compared to the Berserker's force when the Ranged Attack is resolved - that is, when the action is taken. Thus, since a 4F Berserker would be destroyed by a Ranged 4 Attack, this destruction is delayed, and still occurs regardless of his force at the end of the battle. Alex Jones, "Halls of the Forgotten", 25 Jun 2013
• Q: Just as a slight follow-up, a personality hit with Creating Order couldn't even announce either action on Mara's Touch because of the Good Faith Rule, right?
  A: That is correct.
  Since you know the cost (the -2F) will be negated and therefore unable to be paid, the Good Faith Rule will prevent you form announcing the action. Ben Higgins, "Re: Creating Order and Mara's Touch", 22 Apr 2013
• Q: HI!!!!
  If for some reason I have Shosuro Aroru exp 2 and two other personalities bowed at a battle and I use my own Creating Order on Shosuro Aroru and one of the two bowed people. Can I react with Aroru's abilities to redirect his straightening (even though he isn't bowed) to the second bowed personality and move Shosuro Aroru?
  Shosuro Aroru exp 2: imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=7089,#hashid=42b8bb82c5dbe0eb3a44ea3d4e58f256,#cardcount=2
  Creating Order: imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=1557,#hashid=e6892a72e12e896035e57805c49ac495,#cardcount=0
  Thank you!
  A: Yes.
  Aroru reacts to the targeting of an action, and nothing on Creating Order says it can only target bowed Personalities. So you may target Aroru, activate his reaction, redirect the straightening to your other bowed personality, and then move Aroru.
  EDIT: Replaced "ninja" with the more accurate "personality". Jon Palmer, "Shosuro Aroru exp2 and Creating Order", 15 Mar 2013
• Q: I give my guy some combination of +100 Force. My opponent plays Creating Order on my dude. Is this negation of the force bonuses applying a force penalty, or simply negating the bonuses.
  Eg. Can I Incense Mill my Person to gain my +100F again?
  Cheers.
  A: The negation of a bonus is not a penalty, and vice versa. Jon Palmer, "Creating Order - Force Penalty?", 7 Jan 2013
• Q: Hello I just wanted to confirm that switching force and chi is essentially giving a bonus or penalty to the stat and can be negated by things like creating order.
  Example: Shifting Fortunes Keywords
  Maho • Kiho Text
  Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Monk and target a Personality: Switch his Force and Chi. Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Monk and target two Personalities in the same army: Switch their Forces or switch their Chis.
  Would be negated by: Creating Order
  Text Battle/Open: Target one or two Personalities: Either negate all current and new Force bonuses and penalties on them from actions, or straighten their units.
  A: That is correct. Switching force and chi is the same as giving a bonus and a penalty equal to the differences between the old and new amounts, and follows the standard rules for determining the current value of a stat. Jon Palmer, "Switching force and chi vs negating force penalities", 27 Aug 2012
• Q: Creating Order Battle/Open: Target one or two Personalities: Either negate all current and new Force bonuses and penalties on them from actions, or straighten their units.
  If I target a shugenja with Creating Order then he attaches a spell with a force bonus, would they get the bonus from the spell since attaching a spell is a limited/battle action?
  A: While attaching the Spell may be a Limited/Battle action, but most of the Spells that have force bonuses/penalties in the Age of Conquest arc have those Force bonuses/penalties as traits, which Creating Order does not suppress.
  For example, Creating Order would remove the Force bonus/penalty from Conflagration or Erosion, but not Channeling the Fallen or Strength of the Tsunami. Ben Higgins, "Creating Order and spells", 26 May 2012
• Q: When Redoubled Attack/Creating Order attempts to straighten two Personalities, would Hida's Guidance XP stop one or both? Assuming it's one, would it effectively be the active player's choice?
  A: Just one, and yes. Brook Cunningham, "Hida's Guidance XP and Redoubled Attack /Conquest", 19 Feb 2012
• Q: Creating Order
  Battle/Open: Target one or two Personalities: Either negate all current and new Force bonuses and penalties on them from actions, or straighten their units.
  Can you target two guys and straighten one + remove force stuff from the other? Thank
  A: No. You choose either to straighten both, or to negate Force bonuses and penalties on both. Alex Jones, "Creating Order: Mixing up effects", 6 Feb 2012
• Q: If I play Creating Order on a personality to negate current and future force bonusses and penalties on him and then play A Pure Stroke on one of his weapons, does the bonus from the action apply to him ?
  Eventhough the bonus isn't directly given to him, it's still a bonus "from an action" that applies to him so I'm wondering how I should treat this case.
  A: As you point out, the bonus from A Pure Stroke does not apply directly to the Personality, so Creating Order does not affect it. Alex Jones, "A Pure Stroke vs Creating Order", 24 Jan 2012
• Q: How does the trait on Hida's Guidance XP interact with cards that straighten multiple personalities at once like Creating Order? As a follow up how would such actions resolve if both players are Crab Clan and both have Hida's Guidance XP in play?
  Trait: Before the first straightening each battle of a Personality whose controller’s enemy leader is a Crab Clan player: Negate that straightening.
  Creating Order: Battle/Open: Target one or two Personalities: Either negate all current and new Force bonuses and penalties on them from actions, or straighten their units.
  A: The active player chooses which one of the simultaneous straightenings is negated.
  See here, specifically this:
  "In steps A and B, the active player determines the order of conflicting triggered occurrences as they are happening, not beforehand. The active player must do so in such a way that each of those occurrences happens exactly once. Example: Two personalities destroyed simultaneously in battle resolution, A and B, each have a Reaction or trait that trigger before they are destroyed. The active player decides whether Reactions and traits triggered by A’s destruction happen before or after Reactions and traits triggered by B’s destruction." Brook Cunningham, "Hida's Guidance XP and Simultaneous Straightening", 6 Jan 2012
• Q: Hello,
  Since I have some trouble understanding the wording, and after having some discussion with other players, can you please clear up this for me?
  The card I refer to is Hida's Guidance experienced and more specifically its trait, which reads:
  Before the first straightening each battle of a Personality whose controller’s enemy leader is a Crab Clan player: Negate that straightening.
  So, the question is whether this trait is negating the first straightening of each personality at the battle, or just the first straightening of a single personality that happens in the battle.
  If an example would help: a) Otomo A and Otomo B, face Hida C (who plays out of a Crab stronghold) in a battle b) Otomo A and Otomo B bow. c) Otomo A plays a Straighten card. Hida Guidance prevents it. d) Otomo B plays a Straighten card. Does it go through?
  Also in the example above, what would happen if Otomo A and Otomo B used a card to straighten simultaneously (like Creating Order).
  Thanks a lot and best wishes for 2012.
  A: Yes, Hida's Guidance stops the first straightening each battle, not the first straightening per personality each battle. Jon Palmer, "EE: Hida's Guidance Experienced", 4 Jan 2012
• Q: I straightened two personalities while my opponent had Crippling Weather in play. He demanded I bow them both. I explained that they weren't performing anything. He says anything before the colon is considered to be performing (i.e. targeting). I understood the colons to simply denote cost of playing the card. Ususally if someone is to perform an action, it will explicitly say "perform" on the card.
  Should I have been able to straighten my guys? Or am I in the wrong here?
  A: Under Celestial Edition rules, performance of an action can be indicated by targeting in the constraints block.
  http://rules.l5r.com/CE_FAQ#What_performs_an_action.3F
  Mod nudge: Read the FAQ! Zen Faulkes, "Is Creating Order performed?", 4 Aug 2011
• Q: currently not in Onyx, I assume a card like "Creating Order" would since I'm assuming "current and new" means any at the moment and any that can be applied in the future, but CO is not Onyx legal checking with both "new" and "current" with Onyx legality in the two card word search bars (since the keyword search bar also searches in card text instead of just the keywords) results in 3 cards that don't influence force, and "future" results in 2 cards, 1 of which only influences force penalties "Breaking the Rythm" would remove the bonus from Yamigatai, but not from Usagi Seki (technically only the bonus he gets while "Breaking the Rythm" is played is negated, the next action will have it come back)
  A: Also, Creating Order only negates bonuses from actions, not traits, so that wouldn't affect the Usagi either. Brook Cunningham, "Onyx Lives #rules-questions", 3 Dec 2023