Dirty Politics

Legend of the Five Rings card from Samurai Edition, Ambition's Debt, Diamond Edition, Wrath of the Emperor

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Keywords

Political

Card Text

Reaction: Before another player loses Honor: Negate the loss, then gain Honor equal to the amount you negated.
Reaction: Before another player gains Honor: Negate the gain, then lose Honor equal to the amount you negated.

Focus Value

1

Legality

Hidden Emperor (Jade), Race for the Throne (Samurai), Rain of Blood (Diamond)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rulings

• Q: My opponent has a Samurai (or a Courtier) involved in an honor loss. Can I play Dirty Politics before he has the chance to commit seppuku? A: Seppuku must be done immediately when the Samurai first performs the loss-causing action, gets targeted by it, or (if the honor loss is conditional) makes the decision that will result in the loss. On the other hand, Dirty Politics is not played until immediately before the loss itself happens. The opportunity to commit seppuku will invariably arise first. Remember, when two Reactions respond to two slightly different things, the Reaction to the first thing will always get played before the Reaction to the second thing. (Although the form of seppuku available to Samurai and Courtiers is not a Reaction, it follows the same timing rules.) Legend of the Five Rings FAQ, April 26, 2004, p. 14
• Erratum: Reads, "Dirty Politics 0G 1FV Political Reaction: Before another player loses Honor: Negate the loss, then gain Honor equal to the amount you negated. Political Reaction: Before another player gains Honor: Negate the gain, then lose Honor equal to the amount you negated." [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007] Comprehensive Rules, Samurai Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, May 2009, p. 132

Rules Q&A

• Q: Kisada Sensei: If your Family Honor is above 10, you can only gain Honor as the result of battles and duels.
  Does the Sensei negate all honor gains if I am above 10 when I start to gain the honor? Would it be reasonable to follow Shadowlands rulings about honor gains when I am above 10, as far as being able to redirect the gains, Dirty Politics them, Nagori/Shizue them, etc? Or would the Sensei actually wait until I am about to gain the honor to negate it, so the gain can be reacted to as normal, and then goes poof if I am still going to get the honor after every one has passed?
  A: It is a trait. Traits go before Reactions. It would always Negate the Honor gains before anyone could React to them. Martin Lund, "Rules for 1 August 2004", 5 Aug 2004
• Q: Can I use Imperial Messenger on A) Dirty Politics B) Unrequited Love ???
  A: Yes to Dirty Politics. It has a printed honor loss, even if it isn't numeric.
  No to Unrequited Love, the Honor Loss is conditional. Imperial Messenger doesn't trigger on actions that "may" cause honor loss, but Actions that "will." Martin Lund, "Rules for 6 July 2004", 9 Jul 2004
• Q: Is honor gained from a battle 1 big gain or a bunch of 2 honor gains for each card destroyed? If i was defending my last province, my army was out forced and the province is going to be destroyed do i have time to react to the honor gain with Dirty Politics or Retorhic before im taken out of the game?
  A: "Honor gained from battle is a single gain, regardless of the number of card destroyed." (Diamond Edition Rulebook, page 84)
  And no, you can't respond to the Honor gain before you are eliminated. Armies and Provinces are destroyed in one go. Anything that triggers or Reacts here happens, including you being eliminated from the game. Only after those have all resolved will the game move on to the stage where it produces an Honor gain for the victor.
  In short, no, you can not suicide block, lose your last province and army, and then Dirty Politics / Kaukatsu / Egg of Kaukatsu to kill your opponent with Reactions before you lose. Martin Lund, "Rules for 24 June 2004", 28 Jun 2004
• Q: Just a quick question. On cards like Dirty Politics, when it says another player, could you use it on any player or just an opponent or ally? Thanks in advance.
  A: [MARTY] Any player who isn't you. Martin Lund, "Rules for 5 May 2004", 8 May 2004
• Q: A) Petty Insults read (in part): "YOu and that player each lose Honor equal to the Gold you spent on th is card or the Coutiers' total Personal Honor, whichever is less. Your loss cannot be copied or modified."
  What does Modified mean? Can it be redirected with Rhetoric? What about negated and then switched with Dirty Politics?
  A: Modified means changed in anyway. No redirection, increase, decrease, or negation is allowed. Martin Lund, "Rules for 1 May 2004", 4 May 2004
• Q: Shadowlands players cannot gain or lose family honor as per their stronghold's text.
  What is the effect, if any, of Rhetoric OR Dirty Politics against Shadowlands? I assumed no effect (as in, both cards are unplayable). However, I noticed today that both cards say "Before a gain/loss . . . . "
  A: You can't alter any of their gains or losses, because they can't occur. They are Negated and never cause triggers. Martin Lund, "Rules for 1 May 2004", 4 May 2004
• Q: So, does that "before" timing make it possible to, say, redirect the honor loss from refusing Iaijutsu Challenge with Dirty Politics to the challenger's benefit?
  A: You can't affects the Hordes gains or losses. They never happen. You can redirect non-Horde player's losses and gains to a Horde player. If such a redirection effect successfully resolves, the gain or loss in question will vanish without a trace. Martin Lund, "Rules for 1 May 2004", 4 May 2004
• Q: Let's say that first turn I buy a Maru. My opponent's second turn, he attempts to buy a seruma at full, so I DP the honor gain, then rhetoric the honor loss back to my opponent. Is seruma still allowed to enter play since my opponent is at 4 FH?
  A: That's pretty mean, but it does say in the Accumulated Rulings:
  "A Personality's honor requirement must be met before, during, and after paying costs." (Accumulated Rulings, "Honor Requirements")
  And it does say on page 59 of the Diamond Edition Rulebook that you resolve the Honor Gain before the Personality enters play.
  So it looks to me like if you converted that gain into a loss, it would keep the Personality just paid for from entering play.
  You're officially on the "Bad Persons" list for even thinking about it. ;-) Martin Lund, "Rules for 25 April 2004", 28 Apr 2004
• Q: Got a couple of questions regarding timing of certain cards.
  Personality 1 Iaijutsu Challenges Personality 2. Personality 2 refuses challenge. Owner of personality 2 wishes to have him commit seppuku, but owner of personality 1 has a Dirty Politics he wishes to play.
  Who is considered the active player?
  A: I think what you mean is, "who gets to react first?"
  (The "active player" is shorthand for "the player whose turn it is", which is not nearly as important in determining who reacts first as most people think.)
  Basically, reaction timing works like this:
  1. If the Reactions are to two different things, the Reaction to the thing that happens first goes first. (This isn't really a separate rule. It's a natural result of Reactions needing to be used as soon as possible.)
  2. If the Reactions are to the same thing but are worded with different timings -- "before" versus "after", for example -- the one with the earlier wording goes first.
  3. If the Reactions are to the same thing and have the same timing, the first chance to React goes to the player to the left of the one who caused the "thing" to happen. If the trigger is something that happens automatically, first reaction goes to the player to the left of the active player.
  Seppuku is not a Reaction, but its timing works like one. In the case of Iaijutsu Challenge, seppuku is done in response to deciding to refuse the challenge. [DE p. 88] Dirty Politics is played in response to an Honor loss or gain. [card text] Since deciding to refuse the challenge happens first, seppuku combes before Dirty Politics. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 9-10 March 2004", 11 Mar 2004
• Q: Asking for one of the players in my group. I got the wrong answer the last time so I just forwarding.
  ok if dirty politics happens before seppuku, what about imperial messenger? Can you use that to up the honor loss and then dirty politics before they seppuku?
  A: No. Imperial Messenger doesn't change any timing. Seppuku happens first (at the targeting of Shame). If seppuku is not done, Imperial Messenger happens next (immediately before playing Shame), then the honor loss of 14 happens. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 25 Feb. 2004", 26 Feb 2004
• Q: I have a question about seppuku and "Dirty Politics".
  If I target an opponents Dishonored Samurai with "Shame" can I use "Dirty Politics" to prevent the honorloss before the opsing player can seppuku?
  Since "Dirty Politics" say "Before another player loses Honor, negate the loss, then gain Honor equal to the amount you negated"
  And Seppuku can only be done when a samurai (or courtier) causes you to loase family honor.
  A: Seppuku is done when the Samurai is targeted by an action, performs an action, or makes a decision with that result. [DE p. 88] He is targeted by the Shame long before any loss actually happens, so responses to the targeting (seppuku) will always happen before responses to the loss (Dirty Politics). Jeff Alexander, "rules for 10 Feb. 2004", 11 Feb 2004
• Q: I can "drain" a shadowland player honor loss [with Dirthy Politics]?
  A: Not unless it's a stronghold that can gain or lose honor, since the honor totals of most Shadowlands strongholds *cannot* change -- there is no "before." Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 25 November 2003", 25 Nov 2003
• Q: I challenge my opponents samruai or courtier, they refuse, do they get to commit sepukku first, or can I dirty politics it[?]
  A: Seppuku first. See Archive: http://l5r.alderac.com/rulings/#Seppuku Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 12 November 2003", 12 Nov 2003
• Q: Can I dirty politics my own shame on a Shadowlands player, since I can dishonour there personalities?
  A: Not unless they are using the Sepulchre of Bone stronghold. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 8 October 2003", 9 Oct 2003
• Q: I have resolved In TIme of War, and my opponent has gained 3 honor his turn. During his dynasty phase he buys a person for full, with a personal honor of 4. I attempt to play dirty politics with the intention of negating the gain. Which is the correct timing:
  A) Dirty politics reduces the players honor gain to zero, I lose 4 honor B) In Time of War reduces the players honor gain to 2, Dirty politics reduces it to zero, I lose 2 honor. C) Something else
  A: Dirty Politics is "before" an honor gain occurs, manipulating it before In Time of War does anything. Zen Faulkes, "In time of War and Dirty Politics", 8 Dec 2008
• Q: If I play a single Unfortunate Incident, can I react with 2 Dirty Politics to negate the honour loss and gain a total of 10 honour?
  A: No. Your first Dirty Politics resolves before you would have an opportunity to play another. But, since the first negates the Honor loss, there is no longer any trigger for another to be played. "Before another player loses Honor" isn't happening any more because your first Dirty Politics negated the loss. Brook Cunningham, "Unfortunate Incident and multiple Dirty Politics", 12 Jun 2008
• Q: Political Reaction: Before another player gains Honor: Negate the gain, then lose Honor equal to the amount you negated.
  Before the Attacker gains 1 or more points of Honor from resolution, if the attacking army contains one or more dishonorable Personalities, these Personalities are all restored to honorable status, and the Honor gain from resolution is negated.
  A: Citation Martin Lund, "Dirty Politics + Rehonor during battle resolution", 16 Jan 2008
• Q: C. Apply any triggered rulebook effects that are not part of actions, such as rehonoring Personalities instead of Honor gain. The active player decides the order in which more than one of these effects apply.
  ...
  F. Reactions may now be taken following an action round procedure. Starting with the active player, each player in turn order has the option to take a Reaction to the trigger or pass. When all players pass consecutively, no more Reactions to that occurrence of the trigger may be taken.
  A: Citation
  Both Dirty Politics and the Rulebook Effect of restoring Personalities to Honorable status during Battle Resolution have the same trigger - before that player would gain honor.
  However, the Rulebook Effect is applied at Timing Step C, while Reactions have to wait until Timing Step F. The Rulebook Effect will always happen before Dirty Politics, so you can't use Dirty Politics to prevent the Rulebook from restoring victorious Personalities to Honor during Battle Resolution. Martin Lund, "Dirty Politics + Rehonor during battle resolution", 16 Jan 2008
• Q: So the situation is this. A Corrupt Crab decides to bring random Oni A into play, who carries a 3 honor loss entering play cost(As honor loss is a cost to bringing them into play as I understand it).
  A: Honor loss could be a cost, but usually it is not for Oni Personality cards. "Lose 3 Honor" is an entering play effect, not a cost. You could have honor loss as a cost, but it would have to specifically say something like "You must lose 3 Honor as a cost to play this card." Zen Faulkes, "Entering Play Honor Loss+Dirty Politics", 22 Nov 2007
• Q: If a player has his Honor gains doubled by Battlefield of Shallow Graves, and he uses Dirty Politics to change an opponent's Honor loss to a gain, is the gain doubled? (I'm assuming it is)
  Now, if the opponent reacts by getting his Honor loss back with a Dirty Politics of his own, is the loss still doubled? And if the first player then plays a second Dirty Politics, is the gain then quadrupled?
  A: No. Battlefield of Shallow Graves will double the gain when it resolves. Dirty Politics happens before the gain resolves. Nothing gets doubled until the window for playing Dirty Politics is closed. Martin Lund, "Multipled Dirty Politics and gain/loss modifications", 9 Nov 2007
• Q: Concerning viewtopic.php?f=59&t=61805&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
  From the CR:
  * If he has not already gained Honor this way this turn, gain Honor equal to the Personality's Personal Honor just before he enters play (also known as "buying for Honor"). The Honor gain is for the Personality entering play, and if anything causes the Personality not to enter play, the Honor gain does not happen.
  The response concerning triggered traits suggests that the honor gain for entering play was in fact gained (ie, has gained honor this way this turn) whereas the use of Dirty Politics prevented it from happening.
  Am I misinterpreting the rules?
  A: Hm. I see the point. Dirty Politics is played "before" a player gains honor. I'll fix it. Zen Faulkes, "Re: Dirty Politics vs Entering Play honor gains", 18 Sep 2007
• Q: Can a player pay for full again when his first honor gain from bringing in a personality was hit by a DIrty Politics?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Sequence_of_play#Dynasty_Phase: "If he has not already gained Honor this way this turn," so it looks whether the gain actually happened. And Dirty Politics is "before" honor gain. Yes.
  (Corrected.) Zen Faulkes, "Dirty Politics and Dynasty Honor Gain", 18 Sep 2007
• Q: and as example Daigotsu or other lose honor cards
  Would I gain 20 honor when my oponent brings Daigotsu into play before the clause on his shadowlands/spider stronghold to negate loses?
  I know Daigotsu just got previewed but the question is gaining honor from my opponent losses, just daigotsu had a bigger number and hadn't the same clause as Oni no Akuma (cannot negate the loss).
  Thanks for your time.
  A: When Samurai Edition rules come into effect, the Spider stronghold will work like the Shadowlands strongholds did: there will be no honor loss to manipulate at all.
  While I'm here, this is as good a time to mention that when the Samurai Edition rules hits, The Spider's Lair stronghold will not be negating honor losses as it does now. Again, it will work like the Shadowlands strongholds work: there are simply no losses at all, so this means that a Spider's Lair player will not lose honor even for honor losses that cannot be negated. This is not so much a reversal as new rules and wordings coming into effect.
  In fact, I should probably sticky this thread for a while. Zen Faulkes, "Dirty Politics + Lose honor for Bringing Onis into play", 27 Jun 2007