Doomed Undertaking

Legend of the Five Rings card from Death at Koten

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Keywords

Terrain

Card Text

Non-Shadowlands Personalities have -2F/-1C while at this battlefield.
Battle: If there are no Terrains at the current battlefield: Put this card into play there.

Focus Value

2

Legality

Destroyer War (Celestial), Race for the Throne (Samurai)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: I'm confused about this ruling.
  viewtopic.php?f=59&t=92900
  It was ruled that personalities do not maintain their -2F/-1C for the rest of the battle using Doomed Undertaking+Unshakable.
  Previously it was ruled that personalities will remain bowed by Unfamiliar Ground+Unshakable.
  viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75749&p=993235&hilit=unfamiliar#p993235
  I'm just confused. I see the explanation but it just doesn't make sense to me.
  A: Bowing is an instantaneous effect. It has no duration to "end" when the Terrain leaves play.
  Stat changes, however, are ongoing. Brook Cunningham, "Doomed Undertaking&Unshakable", 30 Jul 2011
• Q: I have doomed undertaking in my discard pile. I use a tactician to play Unshakable to play the terrain. Do all non-shadowlands personalities at the battlefield get a blanket -2F/-1C penalty even though the terrain is no longer in play?
  A: No.
  Terrains: "If a Terrain leaves play before a battle’s Final Steps, its ongoing effects end, and its delayed effects will no longer be applied." Brook Cunningham, "Doomed Undertaking&Unshakable", 30 Jul 2011
• Q: Can you use Hand of the Jade Dragon's reaction to negate the attached personalities death if doomed undertaking gives the personality a zero chi or lower?
  A: No.
  Hand of the Jade Dragon has an instantaneous effect (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Instantaneous_effects).
  Doomed Undertaking has an ongoing effect (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Ongoing_effects).
  http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Negatin ... ccurrences: "Special rules apply to the prevention of Personality destruction from zero Chi (.) Ongoing and instantaneous effects that prevent destruction" -- like Hand of the Jade Dragon -- "will not prevent destruction from such an effect." Zen Faulkes, "Hand of the Jade Dragon, Doomed Undertaking", 18 Oct 2009
• Q: hi, sorry if this seems like a dumb question
  Kohana has this trait: After an action resolves which gave a Force penalty to any enemy cards at the current battlefield, if Kohana is there: Gain 1 Honor.
  Doomed Undertaking: Battle: Non-Shadowlands Personalities have -2F/-1C while at this battlefield. (similar to the new card that i know your not taking questions on yet Fields of Battle)
  does this class as force penalty in the battlefield? if so do i get the honor straight away? also slightly weirder... if someone leaves and comes back the force penalty is re-applied, so do i gain another honor?
  thanks for you time.
  A: Kohana's ability triggers "after [the] action resolves".
  http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_R#Resolve: "An action... stops resolving when its sequence of effect activation has ended, even if the application of some effects has been delayed."
  So, once you've played it and all its effects activate, it finishes resolving. Kohana's trigger also checks to see if the action "gave a Force penalty to any enemy cards at the current battlefield" and does so AT THAT TIME. So, after you play the Terrain, if any cards recieved its penalty at that time, Kohana's trait triggers and gives you Honor.
  Cards entering the battlefield later than "after [the] action resolves" won't matter. Brook Cunningham, "Utaku Kohana xp + terrains", 17 Jun 2009
• Q: Since the current questions regarding Obsidian Dragon and Doomed Undertaking have to do with movement, I just want to make sure that the cards interact like I think they do when people aren't moving around.
  If I have the Obsidian Dragon in a battle opposing a number of non-unique personalities, all of whom have been reduced to 1 Chi via the Obsidian Dragon's ability, and I choose to play Doomed Undertaking, to the non-unique personalities opposing the Obsidian Dragon die from having 0 Chi?
  Thank you.
  A: Yes, they die.
  In your non-moving scenario, there's no timing conflict between the Obs Dragon's trait and Doomed Undertaking's effect. The latter is unquestionably succeeding the former, and later penalties will drag the guys to death because:
  http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_O#Obsidian_Dragon: "Imposes a minimum on its own penalty, not to the Chi stat. This is calculated only once and will not change later." Brook Cunningham, "Obsidian Dragon and Doomed Undertaking", 15 May 2009
• Q: This has already been covered in: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75603
  They are NOT both continuous effects. Only the O Dragon is. Obsidian Dragon is a blanket penalty that constantly checks and rechecks. Doomed Undertaking is an instantaneous effect (like Unfamiliar Ground) and applies immediately, ending at the end of turn. Making someone Shadowlands after the terrain effects begin changes nothing.
  Also, I don't see an argument for a timing conflict. There is no conflict. There are two possible scenarios: Dragon started there, Doomed Undertaking is played. In this case, Dragon's penalty is on already. Then something else (the terrain happens). Hey look, 2 things didn't try to happen at the same time. Active player decides nothing.
  Doomed Undertaking is on, Dragon moves in. Again, not two things going on, just one at a time. However in this case, the dragon won't take anyone to 0 because he limits his own chi loss (the minimum 1 applies). Again, active player decides nothing.
  A: See http://rules.l5r.com/Timing
  The Obsidian Dragon and Doomed Undertaking both have a "conditional continuous trait": 3. Effects of conditional continuous traits, if the triggering occurrence means that their condition becomes true, begin at the "when" point. Effects of such traits that no longer apply because their condition is now false, also end at the "when" point. See Duration of effects. Example: "This card has +2F while bowed." The Force bonus is gained "when" the card bows and lost "when" the card straightens.
  These are resolved in step B of "Resolving Timing Conflicts": B. If the point in time is a "when" timing, continuous conditional effects that depend on the triggering occurrence take effect now.
  This is missing an explicit "The active player decides the order in which more than one of these effects apply," but that is still true.
  Note that there is a triggering occurrence for these effects: the Personality moving to the battlefield causes them to both start to apply. Alex Jones, "Obsidian Dragon and Doomed Undertaking", 14 May 2009
• Q: Obsidian Dragon and Doomed Undertaking are in play at a battlefield. The attacker has a 4chi 3ph non unique personality at home. What happens when this personality moves to the battlefield?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Timing#Resolving_timing_conflicts: Active player chooses order the penalties apply. In this case, the order matters.
  http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_O#Obsidian_Dragon: "Obsidian Dragon's Chi penalty will be reduced if it plus other current penalties would result in a Personality having less than 1C. This is calculated only once and will not change later."
  Obsidian Dragon penalty goes first, a later penalty can drop a Personality below 1C. If it goes last, the Personality will not drop below 1C. Zen Faulkes, "Obsidian Dragon and Doomed Undertaking", 12 May 2009