Faint Praise

Legend of the Five Rings card from The Imperial Gift 3, Ivory Edition, Promotional–Ivory

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Keywords

Political

Card Text

Political Open: Before the next time this turn a player gains Honor from an action he took, he loses that amount of Honor instead of gaining it.

Focus Value

3

Legality

A Brother's Destiny (Ivory Edition), A Brother's Destiny (Twenty Festivals), Destroyer War (Celestial)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: Proclaiming: Once during his or her own turn, after a player announces a Recruit action or an action with Recruit as an effect, he or she may choose to Proclaim the Personality being recruited if he has the player’s Clan Alignment and is being Recruited from a Province. If Proclaiming is chosen by a player, add the Personality’s Personal Honor to the player’s Family Honor after he enters play.
  Proclaiming gives the Proclaim keyword to the recruiting action. However, Honor gains from Proclaiming always come from the Rulebook, not any card the recruiting action may be on.
  A: The honor gain is from the action by way of the rulebook Recruiting procedure, but not from the card. As such, Faint Praise will hit a Proclaimed Recruit action. (Proclaim specifically makes the exception to the general rule that effects and actions have the same source.) Ben Higgins, "Proclaim (Action?) & Faint Praise", 27 May 2014
• Q: Basically per the rulebook, are we to understand that Proclaiming is no longer an action?
  If it considered an effect of the Recruit action?
  Basically, what is its new interaction with cards such as Rhetoric, Faint Praise etc.
  A: Choosing to Proclaim is not an action, it is a choice you may make, once per turn on your turn, when you announce a Recruit action - any action that has a Recruit effect.
  When you do this, the Recruiting action gains the keyword "Proclaim", and the additional effect, "If he has your Clan Alignment, gain Honor equal to his Personal Honor after he enters play." Alex Jones, "Proclaim in IE not an action?", 3 Jan 2014
• Q: If I play Faint Praise, and my opponent opts to play an action that would gain him honor, thereby triggering FP, what is the source of the resulting honor loss? Does the loss come from my opponent's Action? Or does the loss come from my FP?
  If the former, would the loss trigger Nexus of Lies?
  A: The honour loss effect is on, and from, Faint Praise. Alex Jones, "Faint Praise: Source of the Loss and Nexus of Lies", 10 Dec 2013
• Q: The ruling says that Only Actions Speak creates an ongoing effect and resolves at step A of the Time sequence while rulebook rehonoring effect is a triggered rulebook effect and resolves at step B. There is another ruling that confirms it.
  However the text in the current version of the Comprehensive Rules is different from what was cited (maybe there was a change in the text at some time?) and says “Apply any ongoing, continuous, or triggered effects that negate, prevent, or substitute the occurrence that defines the trigger, making the occurrence not happen in the first place.”
  And rulebook rehonoring seems very much like “any triggered effect that prevents the honor gain”. I am somewhat confused. Shouldn’t it occur at the step A of the sequence too?
  Then, there is an old ruling that implies that Faint Praise and OAS effects resolve at the same time. Does that mean that Faint Praise’s delayed instantaneous prevention effect happens at step A of the sequence? I am not sure whether delayed effect can be described as “triggered” since it has been already activated earlier.
  Reference:
  Only Actions Speak. Reaction: After an action is announced: Negate all Honor gains until after the action's resolution. At that time if this negated any gains, negate all Honor gains until the end of this phase and draw a card.
  Faint Praise. Open: Before the next time this turn a player gains Honor during his Dynasty Phase or from one of his own actions, he loses that amount of Honor instead of gaining it.
  A: As things currently stand, the active player would choose whether Rulebook rehonoring negation of the Honor Gain or Only Actions Speak's negation would be triggered first; they both occur in Step A.
  As you noted, Step A has been modified since your first two citations. Your third citation is the most accurate, by virtue of it being the most recent. Brook Cunningham, "Only Actions Speak, Faint Praise and rehonor timing", 6 Oct 2011
• Q: If I play Faint Praise, and then use the Limited ability on Ebisu's Honesty I lose four honour, and I do not gain four honour yes? The Glossary entry for instead seems to confirm so.
  Also when can we ask questions regarding Forgotten Legacy? The PDF has been released and most people have received copies of the cards by now.
  A: Substitution is not negation, so Faint Praise would indeed make you lose 4 honour from Ebisu's Honesty rather than gaining 4 honour. Alex Jones, "More Ebisu's Honesty", 26 Jul 2011
• Q: Zen's response in this thread confuses me: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=89300
  Zen said that the new rule (found in this thread viewtopic.php?f=59&t=87123), applies only to simultaneous triggers, not to simultaneous effects keying off one trigger.
  However, I think that the new ruling is SOLELY about simultaneous effects keying off one trigger, and exactly the situation described with Kakita Kensho-In xp.
  In the Faint Praise v. Kakita Okirou thread, the situation was both Kakita Okirou's effect and Faint Praises's effect both triggering off the same singular event, an honor gain. So, two effects are waiting to trigger. 1) "Before the next time this turn a player gains Honor during his Dynasty Phase or from one of his own actions, he loses that amount of Honor instead of gaining it." 2) "Before the next time this turn a target player gains or loses Honor, reduce the loss or gain by the Focus Value of the discarded card." The new ruling states that when one event triggers both things, the AP gets to choose which one to apply first, and then, after the first is applied, the game checks again to see if the trigger condition is still around, and if not, the other effect remains un-triggered. So, if Okirou is applied first, lowering the honor gain to 0, there is nothing for Faint Praise to trigger off of, and it remains untriggered.
  Now let's look at the Kakita Kensho-in xp question, which I think is an exact parallel to the above situation, and I fail to see where situations are different. In Kakita Kensho-in's situation, Kensho-in wins two duels. Each creates an effect from her trait and are waiting to trigger. 1) "Before the next time this turn another player's action bows, moves, or destroys her, negate that effect." 2) "Before the next time this turn another player's action bows, moves, or destroys her, negate that effect."
  According to the new ruling, when my opponent plays an effect that will bow Kensho-In, the AP chooses which of those two effects to apply first. AP applies effect #1 first, negating the bowing of Kensho-in. Now, there is nothing for effect #2 to trigger off of, causing it to remain un-triggered, waiting for the next bow, movement, or negation to trigger it.
  I fail to see how the two situations are not parallel, and I fail to see how the ruling does not apply to simultaneous effects off of one trigger.
  A: Zen is mistaken. The change in the rules affects simultaneous effects from one trigger.
  If Kakita Kensho-in experienced has won two duels (and neither delayed effect has been "used" yet), Superior Mobility will neither move nor destroy her. Alex Jones, "New ruling on timings and Kakita Kensho-In XP", 7 Mar 2011
• Q: Hi all,
  My opponent play a Faint Praise during my action phase. I control a Kakita Okirou and use it open action. Then, I gain some honor by an action or an entering play. Could I choose to resolved the Faint Praise effect first? If yes, does the Okirou effect negates this loss?
  Faint Praise Open: Before the next time this turn a player gains Honor during his Dynasty Phase or from one of his own actions, he loses that amount of Honor instead of gaining it.
  Kakita Okirou Open: Discard a card: Before the next time this turn a target player gains or loses Honor, reduce the loss or gain by the Focus Value of the discarded card.
  Just to know: have you an answer now to this question or is it yet under discussion?
  Thanks in advance.
  A: See Timing Sequence.
  Both Kakita Okirou and Faint Praise create delayed effects which trigger at step B. As the active player, you decide which is applied first. You may indeed decide to apply Faint Praise's effect first, turning an honour gain into a loss, and then apply Okirou's effect, reducing that loss. Alex Jones, "Faint Praise vs Kakita Okirou", 1 Nov 2010