Halls of the Forgotten

Legend of the Five Rings card from Emperor Edition, Emperor Edition Demo Decks, Promotional–Emperor

Card Type

Stronghold

Province Strength

8

Gold Production

4

Starting Family Honor

3

Clan

Crab

Card Text

Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.

Legality

Age of Conquest (Emperor)

Deck

Pre-Game

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: I give a force penalty of 3 to a 7F berserker. I then ranged attack him for 4. If my opponent delays the battle action with HotF, then removes the penalty with Creating Order, will the personality survive when the delayed effect happens?
  A: Halls of the Forgotten does not delay actions, it delays the effects on the Berserker from an action.
  The effect on the Berserker from a Ranged Attack action is the destruction effect. The Ranged Attack's strength is compared to the Berserker's force when the Ranged Attack is resolved - that is, when the action is taken. Thus, since a 4F Berserker would be destroyed by a Ranged 4 Attack, this destruction is delayed, and still occurs regardless of his force at the end of the battle. Alex Jones, "Halls of the Forgotten", 25 Jun 2013
• Q: If I use Halls of the Forgotten to delay No Way Out's targeting until after the battle ends...
  A: You'll note that targeting is not an effect: An effect is anything, other than a cost, that creates a card or other thing in the game, changes the characteristics or state of a card, stat or other thing in the game, adds restrictions or permissions to the game’s procedures, or creates a new instance of a game procedure. Alex Jones, "No Way Out + Halls of the Forgotten", 21 Jun 2013
• Q: Halls of the Forgotten: Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  No Way Out: After this battle resolves, if its Province was not destroyed, destroy the targets of this card's action. Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. Target zero to two attacking cards.
  Does No Way Out even have an effect that Halls of the Forgotten can delay?
  A: You may react with Halls of the Forgotten, as the Battle action on No Way Out does target.
  However, No Way Out's trait will not be delayed by Halls of the Forgotten, as it is not an effect of the Battle action. Ben Higgins, "No Way Out + Halls of the Forgotten", 21 Jun 2013
• Q: Halls of the Forgotten: Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  No Way Out: After this battle resolves, if its Province was not destroyed, destroy the targets of this card's action. Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. Target zero to two attacking cards.
  I have two Berserkers at the battle and my opponent plays No Way out targeting both of them. If I use Halls of the Forgotten to delay No Way Out's targeting until after the battle ends, will No Way Out still kill him?
  Essentially, does the "After this battle resolves" part happen before or after the battle ends?
  A: "After this battle resolves" happens before "after this battle ends."
  As described in the CR entry for Battles (http://rules.l5r.com/EE_Battles#Battles), the Resolution Segment happens as part C of a Battle, where the Final Steps (and the official end of the battle) happens as part D. Ben Higgins, "No Way Out + Halls of the Forgotten", 20 Jun 2013
• Q: I searched for this but couldn't find it...
  I am attacked by a Halls of the Forgotten player with a 2C zerker. I play Power of the Night on him. When does the -3C get applied, if at all?
  My question is basically motivated by the "before this battle resolves" clause on PotN. The delaying from the Halls will cause the action's effects to be applied after that point in time has passed...
  Power of the Night: Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Ninja Personality, bow him if he is not Shadowlands, and target a Personality: Before this battle resolves, give him -3C.
  Halls of the Forgotten: Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  A: "Before this battle resolves" is a timing point, not an effect. Power of the Night will attempt to give him the -3C before the battle resolves, it will still be under the effect of Halls of the Forgotten to delay its effects. The -3C will not apply until after the battle ends. Jon Palmer, "Power of the Night vs. Halls of the Forgotten", 1 Feb 2013
• Q: If I delay a kill action (like relentless conviction) with Halls of the Forgotten and then subsequently use Megumi's Guidance to negate my zerker's destruction until the turn ends, would the kill be negated when it resolved after the end of the battle?
  Megumi's Guidance While your army is opposed, it has +2 total Force, or +3 if you are the Defender. Battle/Open: Discard this card and choose your performing Personality: Negate his destruction from other players' cards' effects (until the turn ends).
  Halls of the Forgotten
  Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  A: Yes Jon Palmer, "Halls of the Forgotten and Megumi's Guidance", 2 Dec 2012
• Q: Hello.
  My opponent, a hated Kalani's Landing, has Kanaye out and he is facing Nikaru in a battle.
  Opponent says that he is going to use Kanaye's ability to target my Nikaru who has no attachments. He has 9 gold, but he pauses for a second, insisting that I have to say if I use Halls of the Forgotten reaction first. So, seeing Kanaye's text (which has a 'may pay gold' clause after targeting), I am a bit puzzled on what's should be the right play:
  a) Kanaye targets Nikaru and pays 9g trying to kill him. I use Halls to delay the destruction. b) Kanaye targets Nikaru. I use Halls to delay whatever Kanaye does. Kanaye skips paying the gold, so I finally delay a simple bowing?
  Reference: Yoritomo Kanaye-> Battle: Target an enemy card without attachments, and you may pay Gold equal to its Gold Cost: Bow it. If you paid the Gold, destroy it.
  Halls of the Forgotten-> Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  Thank you!
  A: Scenario b is correct.
  Halls of the Forgotten reacts immediately after your Berserker is targeted, which occurs before Kanaye's player pays any costs of the ability, mandatory or optional. Brook Cunningham, "Yoritomo Kanaye vs Halls of the Forgotten", 30 Aug 2012
• Q: I try to kill Berseker with Battle action and my opponent reacts with Halls (delay). He plays Blessings' Battle action on his Berserker then. Will his Berseker die after this battle ends or maybe Blesssing will negate his death?
  Halls of the Forgotten Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  Blessings of the Shi-Tien Yen-Wang Battle: Choose your performing opposed Personality and discard this card: The Lords of Death grant him strength. Give him +1F for each dead Personality in all players' discard piles. Negate the next card effect that bows, destroys, or moves him.
  A: Blessings will negate the death, if no other effect has triggered its negation prior. Jon Palmer, "Blessings of the Shi-Tien Yen-Wang + Halls of the Forgotten", 28 Jul 2012
• Q: I use hiruma nikaru on my opponent's personality. My opponent delays the effect using the stronghold Halls of the Forgotten. His personality dies at battle resolution. Is he able to use feign death?
  A: The trigger for Feign Death in this case is the resolution of an action that kills a Personality. There will never be a legal trigger for Feign Death if the killing action is delayed by Halls of the Forgotten. Jon Palmer, "Nikaru vs delay + feign death", 28 Jul 2012
• Q: Any updates to this? It's been over 2 months now.
  Or this? Nearly a month for this one.
  Or have they be forgotten?
  A: Discussion over!
  "Effects on" has been clarified in the CR, so Alex's above ruling is correct, and my contradictory one that was linked has been edited. Brook Cunningham, "Superior Reach and Halls of the Forgotten", 13 Jun 2012
• Q: If I use Keirei's ability and target a berserker and my opponent reacts with Halls of the Forgotten. Is giving a personality the poison tokens considered an effect on the berserker?
  A: Yes. Alex Jones, "Bayushi Keirei & Halls of the Forgotten", 8 Jun 2012
• Q: If i have a berserker and i use intimidation, and my opponent reacts and uses Requesting Authorization targeting my berserker, can i use Halls of the forgotten to delay the negation of movement until after the battle?
  relevant text:
  Halls of the Forgotten Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  Request Authorization Battle: Bow your performing Courtier at any location and target a Personality: Move him home. Reaction: Before another player's Battle action resolves, target a Personality: Negate his movement to the current battlefield from the action's effects.
  A: Reactions are not Battle actions, even when taking during a battle.
  See Abilities and Actions, Designators. Alex Jones, "Requesting Authorization vs Halls of the Forgotten", 17 May 2012
• Q: If I have Lady Matsu's Rage out and I target a berzerker with a kill action and my opponent delays it with Halls of the Forgotten, will Lady Matsu's Rage trait be triggered?
  I'm thinking not because the action will resolve and the berserker will not have been destroyed at the time of the action's resolution.
  Even after the battle ends and the berserker dies, I don't think the trait will trigger then either, correct?
  A: Until Embers of War is released, this thread about Halls of the Forgotten and Feign Death may be useful. Alex Jones, "Lady Matsu's Rage and Halls of the Forgotten", 7 May 2012
• Q: Can Kitsuki Daisuke's ability be delayed by Halls of the Forgotten if I target a dishonorable berserker?
  A: Delaying =/= negating.
  Halls of the Forgotten would indeed delay a dishonorable Berserker's movement from him losing Daisuke's duel. Brook Cunningham, "Kitsuki Daisuke vs Halls of the Forgotten", 18 Apr 2012
• Q: If I play Superior Reach on a Beserker with my weaponized Kensai and the Crab player reacts with Halls of the Forgotten, what effect will be delayed: everything behind the ":" or only the reduction to 0 Force will the berserker still be able to perform actions?
  Thank you for your time!
  A: Both the reduction to 0 force and the inability to target the Kensai with actions are effects on the Berserker, and so are delayed until after the battle ends. Alex Jones, "Superior Reach and Halls of the Forgotten", 18 Apr 2012
• Q: Hi,
  I have one question about how these two cards could work in the case that I react to being targeted by the Strength of the Spider.
  I know that effects are solved after the battle resolution but my question is when is tested the bowed effect.
  Strength of the Spider Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Spider Clan Personality and target an enemy Personality or Follower: Destroy it if it is bowed. Reduce its Force by an amount equal to your Personality’s Force. Bow it if its Force is now 0.
  Halls of the Forgotten Reaction: After another player’s Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  A: The targeted Berserker's bowed status is tested during the Action Resolution step of Strength of the Spider. If he is bowed, the "destroy it" effect is activated immediately but delayed, by Halls of the Forgotten, until after the battle.
  The Force reduction effect is likewise delayed until after the battle ends; the bow effect is only activated (with delayed application) if the Berserker's Force is 0 during the resolution of Strength of the Spider. Alex Jones, "Halls of the Forgotten + Strength of the Spider", 11 Apr 2012
• Q: I just want to make sure I understand the timing of this card. The personality targettedby the stronghold does not suffer the effects of the delayed action until AFTER the battle is over? So they will still contribute force to battle resolution?
  A: The battle ends after the Resolution Segment, so the Berserker may still contribute force if no other effect has removed him from the battle or otherwise caused him not to contribute force. Alex Jones, "Halls of the Forgotten timing", 12 Mar 2012
• Q: Hi,
  Following that but, not linked to Halls of the Forgotten stronghold. Subject: Your Clan Needs You + Halls of the Forgotten The Glossary entry for Destroy now reads: 1. When a card is destroyed, it enters its appropriate discard pile, or leaves the game if it was a created card. While it remains in the discard pile, it is dead if it is a Personality. See, etc.[/quote] One more question about "Destroy" : As a destroyed personality becomes dead in the discard pile, does it means that Kitsu Katsuko "destroys" Lion Clan personalities with her limited ability?
  If Kitsu Katsuko targets a dishonored Lion Clan personality in a discard pile with her ability, the target's state is set to Honorably Dead. Does it count as rehonoring that personality?
  Card's text: Kitsu Katsuko: Battle/Open: Target a Lion Clan Personality in a discard pile and your Samurai: The first target becomes honorably dead. Give the second either Tactician or +3F.
  Thanks in advance, Regards, Rémi.
  A: The Personality targeted by Katsuko becomes dead, but this is not destruction. Destruction of a Personality implies he becomes dead, but the inverse is not true.
  If the Personality is dishonourable, Katsuko will rehonour him. Alex Jones, "Kitsu Katsuko", 7 Mar 2012
• Q: Hi,
  Following this : A personality can be destroyed while in province. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=96545&p=1275384#p1275384
  What happens next ? Does the destroyed personality stay in the province ? I think yes but if not, does the personality become "dead" or "discarded" in the discard pile?
  Regards, Rémi.
  A: The definitions of Destroy and Dead have been changed slightly, removing the clause "in play".
  The Glossary entry for Destroy now reads: 1. When a card is destroyed, it enters its appropriate discard pile, or leaves the game if it was a created card. While it remains in the discard pile, it is dead if it is a Personality. See, etc.
  Areas of the Game, Discard Piles now reads: The Dead: Special rules cover Personality cards in the discard pile. A Personality who is destroyed is in the dead state while he remains in the discard pile; the card is turned 90° in the pile, or otherwise set apart from other discarded cards there. This is not bowing.
  Thus, a Personality who is destroyed while in the discard pile will become dead, and a Personality who is in a province will go to the discard pile in the dead state; a Personality who is not in the discard pile is never dead. Note that the Personality must have been in play when the effect "Destroy him" was originally activated, as described previously. Alex Jones, "Your Clan Needs You + Halls of the Forgotten", 6 Mar 2012
• Q: If the Berserker player is the active player, brings in a berserker with Your Clan Needs You!, and the personality is destroyed but you use Halls of the Forgotten to delay his destruction, what exactly happens? Does he: A. Return to the province and stay there, indestructible and manly, as cards out of play cannot be destroyed? or B. Return to the province, then get destroyed in an unmanly manner, entering the discard pile as a destroyed personality? or C. Alternative conclusion I have not foreseen? In such case, I will prepare my death poem, having failed in my capacity as an honorable daimyo.
  Relevant Kolat Edition Text:
  Halls of the Forgotten Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  Your Clan Needs You! Battle: If any enemy units are at the current battlefield, choose your performing Personality in one of your provinces: Bring him into play at the current battlefield, paying all costs but paying 6 less Gold. After the battle ends, if he is in play, discard all his attachments and put him face up into one of your provinces, face-up, discarding any card there.
  A: Both effects are delayed until "after the battle ends," so the active player will decide which occurs first.
  Note that, according to Effects in and out of play: Effects that were activated on a card in play, and then delayed, also apply to the card at the delayed point in time, even if it is no longer in play.
  Thus, if the active player chooses to apply the delayed effect from "Your Clan Needs You!" first, the Berserker is returned to the province. Then, the effects delayed by Halls of the Forgotten are applied because they were activated when the Berserker was in play: the Berserker in the province is destroyed.
  If the active player chooses to apply the delayed destruction effect first, the Berserker is destroyed. Then, the delayed effect from "Your Clan Needs You!" fails to trigger, because its own text requires the Personality to be in play at the time when it would trigger. Alex Jones, "Your Clan Needs You + Halls of the Forgotten", 1 Mar 2012
• Q: viewtopic.php?p=1271875#p1271875
  Doji Shigeyuki: Battle: Target a Personality with lower Personal Honor than Shigeyuki's Chi: Shigeyuki challenges him. He may refuse; if he does, move him home. Both Personalities use their Personal Honor as their duel stat. Bow the duel's loser's unit. http://rules.l5r.com/EE_Challenges_and_duels "Effects may specify a different stat to be used by one or both Personalities in the duel. A "duel of Force," for example, is a duel in which both Personalities use Force instead of Chi. "
  If Shigeyuki challenges my berserker, and I delay the effects, am I correct in assuming that the effect that makes my personality use his personal honor as his duel stat is delayed, since that is an effect on my berserker? (Leading to a duel of Shigeyuki's personal honor vs my berserker's chi)
  Also, I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but Shigeyuki doesn't have a duration on that effect and nowhere in the rules wiki can I find anything that limits the duration of an effect that changes duel stat, is my assumption correct that (Shigeyuki/target) use their personal honor as their duel stat for any further duels that turn?
  A: "Both Personalities use their Personal Honor as their duel stat" is not an ongoing effect on either Personality, it is a change to the resolution procedure of that one duel. Alex Jones, "re: Halls of the Forgotten and Duels", 14 Feb 2012
• Q: Halls of the Forgotten Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Berserker: Delay its effects on him until after this battle ends.
  Steel on Steel Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target an enemy Personality: Your performer duels the target. Destroy the duel's loser.
  If my berserker personality is targeted by an enemy personality using steel on steel(or similarly worded duel) and i react with Halls of the forgotten, does The reaction(halls of the forgotten) delay the process of the duel until after the battle ends?
  If the duel is delayed, i assume that:
  1) if the challenging enemy personality is killed, the duel will not take place 2) if the challenging enemy personality is bowed, the duel will not take place 3) if the challenging enemy personality is sent home or to a different battle field, the duel will not take place 4) if my berserker is dead, the duel will not take place 5) if my berserker is sent home or to a different battle field,the duel will not take place
  are these assumptions correct?
  Thank you for your time.
  A: The process of the duel is not an effect ON the berserker. Therefore, Halls of the Forgotten will not delay the duel from happening, merely its consequences. Jon Palmer, "Halls of the forgotten vs duels", 8 Feb 2012