Hidden Scandal

Legend of the Five Rings card from Celestial Edition, Honor's Veil

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Keywords

Political

Card Text

Open: From now until the turn ends, after a player gains 5 total Honor from his own card effects, negate his further gains from such effects, and after he loses 5 total Honor from other players' card effects, negate his further losses from such effects.

Focus Value

4

Legality

Destroyer War (Celestial), Race for the Throne (Samurai)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, "Hidden Scandal 0G 4FV Political Open: From now until the turn ends, after a player gains 5 total Honor from his own card effects, negate his further gains from such effects, and after he loses 5 total Honor from other players’ card effects, negate his further losses from such effects." [MRP, Celestial Edition, 29 June 2009] Comprehensive Rules, Celestial Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, February 2012, p. 137

Rules Q&A

• Q: Can you play Hidden Scandal on a player who has already gained 5 or more honor to negate all future gains?
  A: No. The card says, "From now until the turn ends..." (emphasis added). Zen Faulkes, "Hidden Scandal...", 12 Jun 2011
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=85090#p1122819
  The Thriving Light Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero).
  With reference to the same question/scenario. My honor at 20, gained 10, played hidden scandal, gain 4 honor from peep, opponent play proper deference, then if i were to play Thriving light to negate the loss? Because Proper deference creates -14 honor loss. So:
  a) I negate the first 5 honor loss, but doesn't trigger hidden scandal, so i still lose another 5 (due to -9 honor loss balance), making my honor 29. b) I negate the first 5 honor loss, hidden scandal considers as triggered, so i do not lose honor. making my honor 34.
  I'm more inclined to say it's scenario (a), but I'm checking with you guys to be sure.
  A: It's SORT OF your scenario "a)".
  The mild catch is that The Thriving Light isn't negation, it's a reduction. But otherwise, you're correct. Before you lose the 14 Honor, it'll reduce your -14 from Proper Deference to -9, then you'll lose 5 of that nine, which will then trigger Hidden Scandal and the remaining -4 will be negated. Brook Cunningham, "Proper Deference and Hidden Scandal", 22 Jul 2010
• Q: I gain 10 honor during my action phase, then I drop a Hidden Scandal. If my opponent drops a Proper Deference, is my loss capped at 5, so I end the turn with 5 more honor than I started?
  A: Looks correct. Zen Faulkes, "Proper Deference and Hidden Scandal", 18 Jul 2010
• Q: If someone uses the rulebook effect of buying a personality at full to gain honor, this succeeds past Hidden Scandal's cap (because its a rulebook effect), correct?
  A: Yes. Though it seems to me that this question is exactly answered here (probably the one referred to): viewtopic.php?f=59&t=66375 Zen Faulkes, "Hidden Scandal vs. Buying people at full", 27 Feb 2009
• Q: Hi. I thought that it is easy question and could be quickly confirmed in Rules, but after seeing one paragraph in Comprehensive Rules i am rather confused...
  Darling of the Season (event) Until the end of the game, each player cannot lose more than 5 points of Honor in total from other players' cards in a single turn.
  Assigning Blame (action) Political Reaction: After one of your Personalities is destroyed, if you control a Courtier: Dishonor a target Personality. His controller loses 3 Honor; this loss can be negated but not reduced.
  Relevant text underlined (above).
  Rules, glossary Cannot - If a bonus or penalty to a stat, or a stat itself, “cannot” be raised or lowered beyond a certain value, this does not necessarily negate the whole change; only the part that would take the stat beyond that value. Raise/Rise - The phrase “cannot raise/can not rise” negates all bonus or gain beyond a certain number, but does not negate gain up to and including that number.
  And now - Darling of the Season resolved some time ago, it is my turn, no honor gains or loses, and I am receiving three Assigning Blames (AB for short). How much honor should I lose ?
  a) 9 (3+3+3), because Assigning Blame honor loss could not be reduced b) 8 (3+2+3), because 1/3 of honor loss from one AB is negated, and then hits the whole third one c) 5 (3+2+0), because 1/3 of honor loss from one AB is negated and then negated is whole last AB d) 3 (3+0+0), because after first AB hits there is not enough room for second.
  At first glance at the rules glossary, seems to me that c) is the correct answer, but this means that there's something like "negate part of change in numbers and no this is not reduction".
  Puzzled - S.
  A: The result of the discussion was that the Reduce was added to the Glossary: Effects that "reduce" some number only include effects that work by directly changing the number of something. Such effects are considered to be reduction, and not negation, even if they happen to reduce the number in question to zero. Alterations due to maximums or minimums, and due to partial negation (such as from "cannot rise/fall" limits), do not count as reduction.
  This means that once the player has lost five honour, any further honour losses are negated or partially negated, so the "can not be reduced" text on Assigning Blame is not relevant. Alex Jones, "Hidden Scandal (or Darling of the Season) vs Assigning Blame", 28 Jul 2008
• Q: What would happen if after I play Hidden Scandal the other player somehow makes me lose 5 honor, and then plays Assigning Blame on me? Do I lose any more honor? Why or why not?
  A: See "Cannot".
  "Cannot lose more than 5 points of honour" is read as "honour losses in excess of 5 points are negated". Negation is allowed by Assigning Blame, so you would lose 0 honour. However, reduction is not allowed, so if you had only lost 4 honour before Assigning Blame you would still lose the full 3 honour. Alex Jones, "Hidden Scandal (or Darling of the Season) vs Assigning Blame", 13 Mar 2008
• Q: I wrote Asahina Beniha two paragraphs above.
  A: Whoops. I apologize for my oversight. Zen Faulkes, "More on Hidden Scandal", 12 Mar 2008
• Q: If other player targets one of my personalities with the action from 2 different Asahina Benihas, and I play Hidden Scandal after that. Supposing I attack after that, would the honor gains from Beniha be affected?
  A: Yes. Hidden Scandal is looking for the actual Honor gain, not whether the action or immediate effects have resolved. Zen Faulkes, "More on Hidden Scandal", 12 Mar 2008
• Q: Does buying personalities for full and gaining honor count as you own card effect?
  A: No. Where does it tell you to gain honor? In the rules, not on the card. http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_C#Card_effect Zen Faulkes, "More on Hidden Scandal", 12 Mar 2008
• Q: If another player controls a dishonored personality with 2 Denounced on Stage in effect even if they have lost the 5 honor max per turn if their personality dies from hired killer then would that player lose honor from its PH
  A: Yes, the player would lose honor equal to the personal honor of the destroyed, dishonored personality plus 2, since the honor loss from a destroyed dishonored personality is a rulebook effect and not from a player. Doruk Özaydın, "Hidden Scandal", 28 Feb 2008
• Q: and would it be increased by Denounced on Stage or Yogo Honami?
  A: Yes, it can be increased by Denounced on Stage or Yogo Honami as these effects simply increase the loss and do not create a new loss. Doruk Özaydın, "Hidden Scandal", 28 Feb 2008