Imperial Messenger

Legend of the Five Rings card from The Fall of Otosan Uchi

Card Type

Holding

Gold Cost

0

Keywords

Imperial, Retainer

Card Text

Political Repeatable Reaction, w: After a player announces an action on a Strategy that will cause him an Honor loss, or before a player brings a card into play that will cause him an Honor loss, he may discard the card instead of playing it. If he did not choose this, increase the Honor loss to him by its printed amount.

Legality

Four Winds (Gold), Rain of Blood (Diamond)

Deck

Dynasty

Printings

Rulings

• May be used in response to an event. [ZF, 22 April 2003; JA, email, 23 April 2003] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 82

Rules Q&A

• Q: I disagree.
  The key word for SoT is BEFORE a action is used. Not used. So before you initiate the action is when you play SoT. You told me the essentially same thing when using Soshi Seika in removing the political trait after playing a political action to prevent it being Outmanuvered by Force. The same thing also applies to Imperial Messenger which reads:
  Imperial Messenger (U Holding [FOU] SG SD): 0G Imperial Retainer * Political Reaction: Bow before a player plays a card that will cause that player an Honor loss. The player may discard the card instead of playing it. If it is played, increase the Honor loss by the printed loss amount. *
  Since Saori is straight when she starts the action and you are going BACK in time to BEFORE the action is played, Balance shouldnt be able to be played because this should be BEFORE the personality is bowed.
  Team of One
  ps yes I know IM says Bow instead of Use, but I disagree that its the key here, BEFORE is the key.
  A: The use of "before" versus "after" doesn't change what the trigger is. The difference only helps determine when Reactions are announced relative to other Reactions with the same trigger. But even a Reaction "before X" will come after a Reaction "after W" when X comes after W.
  An action is neither "used" nor "taken" until it is fully announced, targeted, and paid for. (And from that point, if it's canceled, that status is lost.) Reactions "before an action is used" do not backtrack to an earlier stage.
  Soshi Seika and Imperial Messenger either do nothing, are retroactive, or to be thoroughly correct should react before a player "announces" the card/action rather than before playing/taking it. (Thank you, Spycraft.) The third is least disruptive. Just because they have to be retroactive or explained is not a reason to judge other cards differently than the standard I've described in the last two paragraphs.
  The Player Design Team is discussing redefining "before an action is taken" to "before an action is announced" and "after an action is taken" as "after an action resolves". On the one hand, it looks more intuitive at first glance. On the other, that's not what the cards actually say. Plus, this change would impact nearly all Reactions in the game to playing a card or taking an action. Martin Lund, "Rules for 11 January 2005", 14 Jan 2005
• Q: Can I use Imperial Messenger on A) Dirty Politics B) Unrequited Love ???
  A: Yes to Dirty Politics. It has a printed honor loss, even if it isn't numeric.
  No to Unrequited Love, the Honor Loss is conditional. Imperial Messenger doesn't trigger on actions that "may" cause honor loss, but Actions that "will." Martin Lund, "Rules for 6 July 2004", 9 Jul 2004
• Q: Example: Imperial Messenger: Political Reaction: Bow *before a player plays a card* that will cause that player an Honor loss. The player may discard the card instead of playing it. If it is played, increase the Honor loss by the printed loss amount.
  Example: Daidoji Akagi: Reaction: Once per turn, *before Akagi performs* a ranged attack, discard a card from your hand to increase the strength of the ranged attack by the Focus value of the discard.
  Between 1 and 2. After Declaring an action is here.
  Example: ?
  A: I can't think of any either. Martin Lund, "Rules for 25 June 2004", 28 Jun 2004
• Q: Can Imperial Messenger be used to increase the honor loss from bringing Voitagi (or similar personality with honor-losing entering play effects) into play?
  A: Yes. Martin Lund, "Rules for 11 June 2004", 14 Jun 2004
• Q: Honor & Glory has resolved. Is it possible to use Imperial Messenger to increase the honor loss of a Iaijutsu Challenge? Or can Imperial Messenger only react to cards that have an honor loss printed on them?
  A: Imperial Messenger does not care if the card itself is the source of the loss. It only cares whether an unconditional loss will occur if the card is played. It can be played against Iaijutsu Challenge under Honor & Glory. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 6 Feb. 2004", 7 Feb 2004
• Q: Can Imperial Messenger be used to increase this loss?
  A: No, because the person taking the action is not the one suffering the loss. [Imperial Messenger card text] Jeff Alexander, "rules for 6 Feb. 2004", 7 Feb 2004
• Q: If I have more than 1 Imperial Messenger in play, can I react multiple times to raise the honor loss?
  A: Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 5 November 2003", 5 Nov 2003
• Q: If I bring Kyofu into play, can I use Imperial Messenger to raise the honor loss?
  A: Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 5 November 2003", 5 Nov 2003
• Q: Can I use Imperial Messenger on either Revering the Past or Imperial Funeral?
  A: Yes. See Rules Archive (http://www.legendofthefiverings.com/rulings). Jeff *may* have misspoken about this combo; I specifically asked him about it, and he hasn't instructed me to change the archived ruling. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 4 July 2003", 4 Jul 2003
• Q: Can I use Imperial Messenger on Revering the Past?
  A: No. Events are not played. Jeff Alexander, "post for 26 May 2003", 29 May 2003
• Q: 1.) Which of the following can I use Imperial Messenger against?
  a.) someone bringing The Maw or other personality with associated honor loss into play b.) someone bringing a corrupt holding into play c.) someone bringing an Oni into play with I Give You My Name if the oni has an honor loss associated with it d.) Shosuro Yudoka's honor loss
  A: All of them. Jeff Alexander, "post for 8 May 2003", 9 May 2003
• Q: In short, does bringing a Dynasty card into play count as "playing a card" for the purposes of Imperial Messenger?
  A: Bringing a Dynasty card into play counts as playing a card. Period. Jeff Alexander, "post for 8 May 2003", 9 May 2003
• Q: And what about Suspicions? Can I hit that every turn with Imperial Messenger, or just the turn it shows up, or not at all?
  A: Events are not played. They do not enter play unless the Event itself says so (and very, very few of them do). Imperial Messenger typically cannot be used on one. It cannot be used on Suspicions. Jeff Alexander, "post for 8 May 2003", 9 May 2003
• Q: I decide to shame my personality. But before i play the Shame, I bow Imperial Messenger to increase the honor loss. MY opponent sees my Kaukatsu and canceles my Political Reaction on the Imperial Messenger. Am I obliged to play the Shame or not?
  I reckon you must, because to even try to use the Messenger, you must have announced that you were going to play a card causing an honor loss.
  "I reckon"(somebody is adjusting well to Texas),
  A: That's not a phrase I learned in Texas. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 15 April 2003", 16 Apr 2003
• Q: I decide to shame my personality. But before i play the Shame, I bow Imperial Messenger to increase the honor loss. MY opponent sees my Kaukatsu and canceles my Political Reaction on the Imperial Messenger. Am I obliged to play the Shame or not?
  A: I reckon you must, because to even try to use the Messenger, you must have announced that you were going to play a card causing an honor loss. If you followed the timing to the letter ("Bow before a player plays a card..."), Imperial Messenger almost never be used, since how could you know if a card was causing an honor loss until it was being played? Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 14 April 2003, Part 2", 15 Apr 2003
• Q: Some Rules questions...
  With The Imperial Messenger Holding Imperial Retainer Political Reaction: Bow before a player plays a card that will cause the player an Honor loss. The player may discard the card instead of playing it. If it is played, increase the Honor loss by the printed amount.
  I agree if he uses Kolat master (action) but can it be used if the opponet play items (Porcelain Mask of Fu-Len) or Personalities (Voitagui) or Holdings (Corrupt gold?) to double the amount?
  A: Yes. It can be used on any card that causes an Honor loss to its player when it is played. Jeff Alexander, "post for 27 February 2003", 28 Feb 2003
• Q: Cards Ivolved: Kolat Assassin, Imperial Messenger, Wind's Truth
  Let's say I play Kolat Assassin, I wanted to increase the honor loss with my Imperial Messenger, but as my opponent gets the first reaction he steals the honor loss first.
  My question: can I still use my reaction, possibly rendering the Wind's Truth unusable?
  A: First, let's make sure your opponent REALLY gets to react first. Gold Edition rulebook, page 48:
  ] If more than one player wishes to take Reactions at the same ] time, first consider the exact wording of the Reactions. A ] Reaction taken "before" its trigger, for example, is always ] playable before one taken "after" its trigger. If the Reactions ] have the same wording for when they're taken, the chance to ] take the first Reaction goes to the player to the left of the ] one who caused the trigger. For things like the beginning of a ] phase, treat the active player -- the one whose turn it is -- ] as the one who caused the trigger.
  The Wind's Truth is cast "when any player gains or loses honor", but Imperial Messenger has to be bowed "before a player plays a card that will cause that player an Honor loss." In this case it's clear: Imperial Messenger is ALWAYS used before The Wind's Truth is. Your opponent cannot steal your loss before you double it. Jeff Alexander, "post for 27 February 2003", 28 Feb 2003