In Time of War

Legend of the Five Rings card from Samurai Edition, Diamond Edition, Gold Edition, Time of the Void, Promotional–Diamond, L5R Experience, A Perfect Cut, Promotional–Samurai

Card Type

Event

Keywords

Unique

Card Text

After you reveal cards in your Provinces at the start of your turn, if this Event is face-up in one of them, until the game ends, all players' Family Honor will not rise over 5 points from what it was when the turn began. This is not considered modifying a gain, but may cause portions of a gain to not happen.

Legality

Clan Wars (Imperial), Four Winds (Gold), Race for the Throne (Samurai), Rain of Blood (Diamond)

Deck

Dynasty

Notes

The L5R Experience version was misprinted with the art from Proposal of Peace.

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, "In Time of War For the rest of the game, no player's Family Honor may rise over 5 points from what it was when the turn began. This applies only to total Family Honor, and does not modify individual losses or gains." [MRP, Diamond Edition, 27 October 2003] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 72
• Does not limit changes in honor total for increases that are not considered Honor gains (e.g., Experienced 2 Bayushi Yojiro). [Reversal, JA, 16 December 2001] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 72
• Each individual honor gain is unaffected by the event, but if that gain would cause you to exceed the maximum Family Honor allowed, your family honor is adjusted back down to the maximum allowed. Then, your Family Honor becomes that maximum at the end of the turn. [JA, 1 October 2002; 28 May 2004] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 72
• The limit to five points affects all honor gains throughout the turn, not the net change. [DW, personal correspondence, 1/10/98] Accumulated Rulings, February 8, 2000, p. 33
• Erratum: Reads, “In Time of War Until the end of the game, during each turn, a player’s Family Honor cannot rise over its value when that turn began plus 5.” [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007] Comprehensive Rules, Samurai Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, May 2009, p. 140

Rules Q&A

• Q: Does the honor gain happen before In Time of War checks my starting family honor for that turn, like Boastful Proclamation?
  Surge says 'before' while Boastful says 'at the start' - does that mean I'm gaining honor in the previous player's turn, and In Time of War would cap my gain at 5 even if I had 3 Acolytes in play?
  Or does the Dragon return to play in some moment between turns - after the previous player's turn has finished but before mine starts? Does that make it impossible to satisfy the once per turn restriction?
  A: That's a right mess there.
  By past precident in the Rulebook "After the end of the turn," comes before, "Before the beginning of the next turn."
  That does, at first glance, create a gap of time in between the two turns. I can find any immediate leads to work with, though Jeff may have fielded something similar to this a while ago. Let me forward this over to him to check it out real quick. Martin Lund, "Rules for 25 and 26 December 2004", 3 Jan 2005
• Q: Each individual honor gain is unaffected by the event, but if that gain would cause you to exceed the maximum Family Honor allowed, your family honor is adjusted back down to the maximum allowed. Then, your Family Honor becomes that maximum at the end of the turn. [JA, 1 October 2002; 28 May 2004]
  Sorry if I missed this, but, is this considered an honor loss, since you are going from a higher number to a lower number?
  A: It plays exactly as if your Family Honor were given a Stat-Maximum. All excess increases beyond the maximum happen. They can be copied, redirected, etc. Excess Honor sticks around to make it harder to for penalties to lower your Family Honor Stat and they will get to "kick in" to you Family Honor Stat if the Maximum imposed by In Time of War were removed (say you hit it with Shrine of the Sun). That works just like an excess Stat-bonus or penalty running up against a Maximum or Minimum Chi or Force value on a Personality.
  At the end of the turn, all excess Honor beyond the Maximum simply disappears into the Aether. It isn't considered a loss or a gain. When the next turn begins, a new Maximum will be imposed on your Family Honor. Martin Lund, "Rules for 11 July 2004", 15 Jul 2004
• Q: Ok, so other than canceling the honor gain or loss before it happens, non-modifiable cannot be change. So here is another question now. What about In Time of War?
  A: Irrelevant. "This applies only to total Family Honor, and does not modifyi ndividual losses or gains." The cap is still the cap. The bonus is not modified. Your total is. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 22 March 2004", 23 Mar 2004
• Q: Ok I followed up on the rules archive and found this:
  In Time of War Reads, "In Time of War For the rest of the game, no player's Family Honor may rise over 5 points from what it was when the turn began. This applies only to total Family Honor, and does not modify individual losses or gains." [MRP, Diamond Edition, 27 October 2003] Does not limit changes in honor total for increases that are not considered Honor gains (e.g., Experienced 2 Bayushi Yojiro). [Reversal, JA, 16 December 2001] If you exceed the maximum Family Honor allowed, your Family Honor becomes that maximum at the end of the turn. [JA, 1 October 2002]
  Which would lead me to believe that I would get the full amount but then at the end of my turn IToW then lowers (in a sense) all honor gains to 5 over what I started with. Since I cannot gain more than 5 over what I started with.
  So the last part of the rules archive should read:
  If you exceed the maximum Family Honor allowed in a turn, your Family Honor becomes the maximum allowed at the end of the turn. Meaning 5 over what I started with.
  A: No. Your Family Honor is held at or below that maximum all turn long. It does not drop just at the end.
  That ruling is in the archive because someone pointed out a technicality that when the cap changes at the end of the turn, any extra gains that it prevented from adding will re-apply and players will get them anyway. This ruling fixes that abuse. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 22 March 2004", 23 Mar 2004
• Q: If I have In Time of War, and my oponent has, for example, 10 PH, what happens when he gains 3 honor each for 2 personalities?
  Does he gain 6, but ends the turn in 15, or that he gain only 3, ending the turn in 13, since he can`t gain 3 more, because he would be 16?
  A: His Honor can't go above 15 that turn. No individual gains are chopped off or negated. The cap is only applied to the total. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 16 Feb. 204", 18 Feb 2004
• Q: Can this event get by the 5 honor cap from In TIme of War?
  A: Again, it is up to the active player which comes first, gaining the 3 or checking the value to which you add 5 to determine the cap for the turn. Jeff Alexander, "post for 16 May 2003", 21 May 2003
• Q: Now...someone once pointed out that the cap increases at the start of each turn, but honor gains are permanent, so those three +3s should still be there, and when the cap changes from 15 to 20 next turn, they will show up again (10 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 19, which is below 20). The ruling on In Time of War that everyone is confused about was made so that this does not happen. The In Time of War ruling says this: at the end of the turn, your Family Honor is set to a firm 15, not a "15 with the cap, but 19 behind the scenes".
  And the loss in "honour behind the scenes" can't be TWT'd to your opponent to cause them an honour loss?
  A: No. Jeff Alexander, "post for 30 April 2003", 1 May 2003
• Q: No, I'm not Leon in disguise :)
  In Time of War is in play. I gain 12 honour, which is capped at 5. I then Shame myself, which doesn't cause me to lose any family honour because I'm still capped at 5. Can I TWT the honour loss across to my opponent, despite the fact that I haven't actually lost any honour?
  A: Yes. You have received a 7-point Honor loss Jeff Alexander, "post for 29 April 2003", 30 Apr 2003
• Q: If I understand correctly, you can, because you do actually gain and lose the honour.
  In Time of War only caps you at the end of your turn. In other words, you can gain 12, but at the end of your turn you go back to the five. So, you can gain 12 and lose 7 with no problem.
  A: You are not reduced to the maximum only at the end of the turn. That is not what the card says. Your total Family Honor cannot rise past the maximum at any time during the turn.
  What happens at the end of the turn is that your true Family Honor, notwithstanding the maximum, is brought down to the maximum for good if your true Honor exceeds it.
  I can't think of a clear way to explain this other than a detailed example.
  Let's say you start a turn with 10 honor. In Time of War is in effect, so your maximum Family Honor all turn long is 15.
  During that turn, you win three For the Empire duels. Each gives you 3 Honor, so your Family Honor would be 10 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 19. But that's above 15, so you stop adding after 15. KEY POINT: you don't actually reduce or negate any of the 3-pt gains. The cap is only on your TOTAL. All of your gains and losses still happen in the math before the maximum value is appied. (By the way, this is exactly the way Force and Chi min/max values work, too.)
  If you were to lose 2 Honor at this point, your total would still be 15: 10 + 3 + 3 + 3 - 2, capped down to 15. That is why the 2-point loss can be Wind's Truthed to another player, even though it would not reduce your own Honor total if you were to suffer it.
  If the maximum of 15 were to disappear mid-turn, after those duels, your Family Honor would change to 19 immediately because you'd still be adding 10 + 3 + 3 + 3 but you wouldn't stop adding after 15 anymore.
  Now...someone once pointed out that the cap increases at the start of each turn, but honor gains are permanent, so those three +3s should still be there, and when the cap changes from 15 to 20 next turn, they will show up again (10 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 19, which is below 20). The ruling on In Time of War that everyone is confused about was made so that this does not happen. The In Time of War ruling says this: at the end of the turn, your Family Honor is set to a firm 15, not a "15 with the cap, but 19 behind the scenes". Jeff Alexander, "post for 29 April 2003", 30 Apr 2003
• Q: So, the follow-up question is as follows:
  In Time of War is in play. I start my turn at 3 honour, running Shiba Halls. I play Lies, Lies, Lies to raise my honour to 7. I am allowed to TWT this 4-point change to my opponent, even though my FH was raised to a new number (rather than me gaining X honour explicitly), according to the archives.
  A: Yes, because it is a normal gain. Jeff Alexander, "post for 29 April 2003", 30 Apr 2003
• Q: Along the lines of the ruling below..
  Say In Time of War is in play. I have 3 Poorly Placed Gardens, and 3 Sanctified Temples in play.
  I bow them all to gain honor. (12 total, Capped at 5).
  If, for some reason, In Time of War disappears (Lets say I use my Shrine of the Sun on it) will I gain the 7 honor from earlier, or will all that honor disappear?
  A: Your Family Honor will then be 12. This is not a gain -- your gains already happened. Jeff Alexander, "post for 4 April 2003", 5 Apr 2003
• Q: Question : When you use Shrine of the Sun to stop Suspicians or In Time of War, are these events considered to be "in play" or "in the discard pile".
  A: Don't confuse the effects of an Event with the physical card. The card only remains in play if it says so (which applies to very few Events over the history of L5R). Jeff Alexander, "post for 24 February 2003", 25 Feb 2003
• Q: You can start a turn with an honor gain in place? Well... when did you gain that honor? You didn't gain it on the last turn, because of the card text. You can't have gained it on the current turn, because it bypasses In Time of War, and In Time of War says you can never go above five more than what you started the turn with--so if anything bypasses that, it can't have happened on the current turn. That honor gain must have occured during an infinitely small period of time in which player A had finished his turn, but Player B was not quite on his yet.
  A: You're making this far more complex than it really is. Jeff Alexander, "post for 3 December 2002", 4 Dec 2002
• Q: 2. People are describing In Time of War as if it were some process or machine, it is not. It is a card that creates a change in the game environment. That In Time of War "checks" your starting honor is somewhat ludicrous.
  A: I honestly don't understand these comments. In Time of War puts a limit on your Family Honor based on your start-of-turn Family Honor. How could this POSSIBLY happen without knowing what that number was? That's all I mean by "checking" -- answering the question, "What was my Family Honor at the start of the turn?" Jeff Alexander, "post for 3 December 2002", 4 Dec 2002
• Q: Likewise, if something gives you 3 Honor at the start of your turn, it would only be consistant to rule that there is no moment of time, not even a tiny one, where your turn has begun but you haven't gotten that 3 Honor yet. Thus that gain will always sneak in before In Time of War makes its check of your Family Honor, adds 5, and sets its cap.
  First - this means the player can win by Honor through this, right?
  A: Yes. This ruling has already been made. Jeff Alexander, "post for 2 December 2002", 3 Dec 2002
• Q: Second - I still find the logic here a bit strange. In Time of War doesn't check your Honor at the start of your turn - it just won't let you end a turn more than 5 higher than your started it.
  A: It has to know what your Family Honor was at the start of the turn in order to do that, no? Jeff Alexander, "post for 2 December 2002", 3 Dec 2002
• Q: Likewise, if something gives you 3 Honor at the start of your turn, Thus that gain will always sneak in before In Time of War makes its check of your Family Honor, adds 5, and sets its cap.
  Umm why not "it would only be consistent to rule that there is no moment of time, not even a tiny one, where your turn has begun but In Time of War hasn't checked your Honor yet"?
  A: That would NOT be consistant with the ruling that a zero gold Geisha Assassin always gets +1C from Fortress of the Dragonfly before she dies from having 0 Chi. Jeff Alexander, "post for 2 December 2002", 3 Dec 2002
• Q: Umm why not "it would only be consistent to rule that there is no moment of time, not even a tiny one, where your turn has begun but In Time of War hasn't checked your Honor yet"? What determines which continuous effect resolves first?
  A: In general, the third cardinal rule (Dark Allies rules, pg. 5). Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 30 November 2002", 30 Nov 2002
• Q: Boastful Proclaimation causes an honor gain at the start of that player's NEXT turn. In Time of War check each player's Family Honor at the start of every turn. The original question was: which happens first?
  Likewise, if something gives you 3 Honor at the start of your turn, it would only be consistant to rule that there is no moment of time, not even a tiny one, where your turn has begun but you haven't gotten that 3 Honor yet. Thus that gain will always sneak in before In Time of War makes its check of your Family Honor, adds 5, and sets its cap.
  First - this means the player can win by Honor through this, right?
  A: Yes. Precedents: see Archive, Events, A Soul of Thunder. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 29 November 2002", 30 Nov 2002
• Q: In a message dated 11/27/02 11:53:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:
  In Time of War has resolved and in one of the following turns player A gets a Boastfull Proclamation. Player B cannot destroy the province, so next turn Player A gains three Honor. Can player A choose to gain the honor before In Time of War checks his Family Honor, thus gaining eight that turn?
  He can't choose to -- it happens that way regardless. It's analogous to the Geisha Assassin/Fortress of the Dragonfly combo.
  Does this mean that if " In time of war " has resolved, that it is still possible to gain more than 5 honor per turn? Do events resolve before " In time of War " checks honor every turn? Where is this in the rulebook?
  A: It's not in the rulebook. An Event isn't resolving before a turn starts.
  Boastful Proclaimation causes an honor gain at the start of that player's NEXT turn. In Time of War check each player's Family Honor at the start of every turn. The original question was: which happens first?
  We already have a ruling that when a card enters play, it receives all continual bonuses to cards in play before anything checks its stats. For example, if I have a Fortress of the Dragonfly in play already, and I buy Toku, there is no moment in time when Toku is in play but not 2 Chi yet. He's either still in my Province at 1 Chi or he's in play at 2.
  Likewise, if something gives you 3 Honor at the start of your turn, it would only be consistant to rule that there is no moment of time, not even a tiny one, where your turn has begun but you haven't gotten that 3 Honor yet. Thus that gain will always sneak in before In Time of War makes its check of your Family Honor, adds 5, and sets its cap. Jeff Alexander, "post for 27 November 2002", 28 Nov 2002
• Q: In Time of War has resolved and in one of the following turns player A gets a Boastfull Proclamation. Player B cannot destroy the province, so next turn Player A gains three Honor. Can player A choose to gain the honor before In Time of War checks his Family Honor, thus gaining eight that turn?
  A: He can't choose to -- it happens that way regardless. It's analogous to the Geisha Assassin/Fortress of the Dragonfly combo. Jeff Alexander, "post for 26 November 2002", 27 Nov 2002
• Q: Any update on In Time of War? We still are to treat the whole thing as bonuses?
  A: Could you be more specific? What "whole thing"? I thought I had already addressed the one hanging issue here. Jeff Alexander, "post for 21 October 2002", 22 Oct 2002
• Q: When players are removed from the game their events continue, this means that the cap is still in effect.
  Same goes for suspicions the only difference is that since they player who was eliminated will never have a events phase, therefor you never lose the one honour.
  We found this in the rulebook.
  A: Your first point is in the rulebook, but the second isn't, and past FAQs have said that periodic effects that happen during eliminated players' turns continue to happen. That Suspicions should have kept going. Jeff Alexander, "post for 2 October 2002", 3 Oct 2002
• Q: In a message dated 9/27/02 11:14:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:
  << Hey Jeff,
  Has the Junta made a choice about this (it was in your September 5th rules post) ? :
  << [Subject = In time of War, and the honor gains being there but not active or something, like the cap on Matsu Domotai's Force] Now since honor gains do not vanish at the end of my turn, during my opponent's turn he use the basic Yogo Tjeki on me for a 2 pt Honor loss. My honor : A) Drops by 2 and goes to 18, or B) Drops by one since I still had one of those magical invisible "excess honor" points and I end up at 19 ?
  If the answer is A), where did the excess honor point go, and why did they vanish at the end of my turn ?
  Interesting point. I'll see what the Rules Team has to say. In Time of War does, in fact, work like stat maximums do. If you exceed the maximum, your Family Honor becomes that maximum at the end of the turn. Yes, this is a bit of Designer Fiat.
  Jeff, Can I add to that please. What if it is a multiplayer game, and the guy who put In time of War into play is removed from the game by province destruction? What happens to the honor gains that happened while In Time of War was in effect?
  A: The exact same things that happen when he's not removed. Eliminating a player does nothing to the duration of effects started by her cards. Jeff Alexander, "post for 30 September 2002", 1 Oct 2002
• Q: In Time of War Reads, "In Time of War For the rest of the game, no player's Family Honor may rise over 5 points from what it was when the turn began."
  I have some questions about this event 1.- if it's the opponet's turn , can i gain more than five point of honor ?
  A: No. You can gain 5 points on your turn, then 5 more points on his turn, etc. etc. Jeff Alexander, "post for 6 September 2002", 7 Sep 2002
• Q: Example : We are under In Time of War and I have 15 honor. I play "Even More Beautiful Hanabi" to Gain 8 Honor. My honor total is raised by Five, to 20. Correct ? My opponent Deeds me. Being kind of stupid, I use my Fantastic Gardens and Lose 2 Honor. Since I had already three "excess honor", I would in fact stay at my current Honor total, 20, -with one "excess honor" still ? Correct ?
  A: Correct. Jeff Alexander, "post for 5 September 2002", 6 Sep 2002
• Q: This is straight from the accumulated rulings :
  In Time of War Reads, "In Time of War For the rest of the game, no player's Family Honor may rise over 5 points from what it was when the turn began." [MRP, A Perfect Cut, 4 September 2001] Does not limit changes in honor total for increases that are not considered Honor gains (e.g., Experienced 2 Bayushi Yojiro). [Reversal, JA, 16 December 2001]
  So, if I read it correctly, if I'm at -18, and In Time of War has resolved and I have Yojiro exp2 in play, I can go back to 2 Honor (assuming I'm playing with Yogo Towers or Shadow Stronghold of Bayushi). Am I right ?
  A: Yes. Jeff Alexander, "post for 5 September 2002", 6 Sep 2002
• Q: Actually, it does forbid you from having more at any point during the turn. It works like a maximum on a stat, like Domotai's cap on total Force.
  So I gain 8 ia a single hit, IToW drops it to 5, what happenes to the rest of the gain?
  A: Nothing. It's still an 8 point gain. But that gain can't raise your total past a certain amount. Jeff Alexander, "post for 4 September 2002", 5 Sep 2002
• Q: For the rest of the game, no player's Family Honor may rise over 5 pts. from what it was when the turn began.
  which means if both Suspicians and In Time of War are in play you can regain the lost 1 honor and gain a further 5.
  Correct.
  ;;;;;
  Jeff, this only applies to the player who actually played Suspicions, correct? The other player(s) would not be able to gain 1+5 honor, since the 1 honor lost would be enforced before their turn(s) began.
  A: That would be right, yes. Jeff Alexander, "post for 18 January 2002", 18 Jan 2002
• Q: FYI = In Time of War's text states
  For the rest of the game, no player's Family Honor may rise over 5 pts. from what it was when the turn began.
  which means if both Suspicians and In Time of War are in play you can regain the lost 1 honor and gain a further 5.
  A: Correct. Jeff Alexander, "post for 15 January 2002", 16 Jan 2002
• Q: 2) Under the MRP in GE of "In Time of War," it becomes unclear if Bayusi Yojiro Exp. 2 may use his power to "Open: ... raise your Family Honor to your starting Family Honor." if the raise in honor is greater than 5. (I don't think this was the original intent of the designers, but this is how it looks as of MRP.)
  A: It's allowed. Yojiro's change does not count as an honor gain by his own text, and In Time of War prevents "rising" beyond 5, so it applies to gains only. Jeff Alexander, "post for 16 December 2001", 16 Dec 2001
• Q: Everyone knows the combo of Tribute to Your House and Asako Sagoten for quick >honor gains. Albeit, not a great combo, it's one that I play with in one of my >fun decks. I was thinking about this combo, and then it came to my attention, >how is this such a combo affected by the new wording on In Time of War?
  Tribute to your House reads: Political Limited: Destroy your rightmost province. Until the beginning of your >next turn the player (or players) with the most family honor is considered to >have family honor equal to their starting family honor. Honor gains and losses >occur as usual during this period and affect the player's true family honor >during this time. This is not considered an honor loss.
  While not considered an honor loss, per se, it would take you back to your >starting family honor. So the question is, could you technically use two or >more Sagotens after dropping a Tribute under IToW? Or is this >Psuedo-Current-Honor not change anything based upon what your starting honor >is? Or what? I'm just trying to figure out what I can and cannot do here :P
  A: Tribute to your House effectively circumvents In Time of War's new wording. At the beginning of your next turn, your honor resets itself to what it really is, just in time to count as "what it was when the turn began". You can gain as much honor as you want behind the scenes, using Sagoten or any number of other measures. Jeff Alexander, "post for 2 October 2001", 2 Oct 2001
• Q: Yojiro's ability includes the sentence "This is not considered an Honour gain." Does this mean it is or isn't affected by In Time of War, which uses the word "rise"? Is this just semantics, or is the difference intentional?
  A: I don't think the difference was intentional, but it is significant. Yojiro's ability is not a gain, but it *will* be capped by In Time of War, which doesn't care about the nature of the increase, only the increase itself. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for July 27th", 27 Jul 2001
• Q: Question 2) In Time of War has gone off. My opponent gains 2 honor and then attaches the Imperial Standard. I have a 3 chi shugenja. Using a Wind's Truth, can I get the 3 honor that he would get from the Imperial Standard or am I limited by the fact that he gains 4, but only 3 gets added to his honor? (I hope this questions makes sense)
  A: You get the gain he would have gotten, which is 3. Jeff Alexander, "replies to 15-20 July", 26 Jul 2001
• Q: I thought the MRP in Gold on In Time of War said that all honor gains a player makes are, at the end of the turn, retroactively reduced to 5 for that total turn. Thus, if I begin my turn with four honor, while my foe has twenty, I can gain thirty honor and sieze the favor (with that honor gain) but end my turn with only nine honor.
  A: Umm...no. The text on In Time of War is:
  For the rest of the game, no player's Family Honor may rise over 5 points from what it was when the turn began.
  Any gains that would raise your honor above 5 points from what it was when the turn began are capped at the point of creation. You can, however, gain some, lose some, and then gain some more. The old In Time of War capped gains at exactly 5 points per turn. Now, it doesn't really limit how *much* honor you can gain, it limits how far you can go with that honor. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for July 25th", 25 Jul 2001
• Q: Question 2) In Time of War has gone off. My opponent gains 2 honor and then attaches the Imperial Standard. I have a 3 chi shugenja. Using a Wind's Truth, can I get the 3 honor that he would get from the Imperial Standard or am I limited by the fact that he gains 4, but only 3 gets added to his honor? (I hope this questions makes sense)
  A: It does. You gain 3. This question becomes a little easier to answer if you move one step further in the chain. Your opponent gains 2, and then attaches the Imperial Standard. Then, because he's a silly wonk, he bows his Poorly Placed Garden. Can you Wind's Truth the 2 point gain from the PPG before it gets eaten by In Time of War? No. When In Time of War is in play, honor gains are modified before they can be Reacted to. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for July 23rd", 23 Jul 2001
• Q: In Time of War specifically states that all honor gains above 5 are negated, so how does this event trump the sensei?
  A: It doesn't. Jeff Alexander, "Rulings for 19 February 2001", 24 Feb 2001
• Q: I recently read a post asking if Determination would allow a player to gain honour above the allowed amount from In time of war, and the reply by Kaiu Genji that it could, however, i was under the understanding that because In Time Of War uses the phrase a player's family honour can not rise over it's value when the turn began + 5, that it would follow the standard rules for Cannot effects and therefore not be negation but a total inability to go over that limit....just curious if i'm getting my annoying rules right, the whole cannot/may not/ can't thing still confuses me....
  A: Mod request: If you are referring to an earlier post, please link to it. Thanks!
  I think the post in question is here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=75048
  "Can not" has two possible meanings, not one.
  http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_C#Cannot
  You're confusing the use of "cannot" in card text with its use in rules text. Zen Faulkes, "Determination + In time of war", 24 Apr 2009
• Q: In reference to: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=74329&start=0
  From the rules wiki:
  Resolving timing conflicts
  (snippage)
  A. Apply any ongoing or continuous effects, such as "can not" wording, that negate or otherwise modify the occurrence that defines the trigger. For example, "can not move home" negation happens at this point prior to a unit moving home, so that no other triggered effects, traits or actions can respond to the unit's movement. The active player decides the order in which more than one of these effects apply.
  ---> In Time Of War applies here
  (more snippage) C. Apply any triggered rulebook effects that are not part of actions, such as rehonoring Personalities instead of Honor gain. The active player decides the order in which more than one of these effects apply.
  So, according to this, In Time of War ongoing "can not" negation effect should apply before the rehonoring of personalities.
  Is there anything wrong in this reasoning?
  A: You're applying rules for timing conflicts, but this isn't a timing conflict (i.e., two things trying to occur at the same time). The question isn't, "When is the Honor gain squelched?" but "Is there an Honor gain at all?" The blind cards rule says, "Yes." Zen Faulkes, "In Time of War and rehonoring", 17 Mar 2009
• Q: In Time of War is in play. I have gained 5 honor this turn already. My opponent dishonors one of my personalities. This personality then generates an honor gain. Would the personality rehonor?
  A: Yes, because of the Blind Cards rule: http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Blind_cards_rule Zen Faulkes, "In Time of War and rehonoring", 1 Mar 2009
• Q: I have resolved In TIme of War, and my opponent has gained 3 honor his turn. During his dynasty phase he buys a person for full, with a personal honor of 4. I attempt to play dirty politics with the intention of negating the gain. Which is the correct timing:
  A) Dirty politics reduces the players honor gain to zero, I lose 4 honor B) In Time of War reduces the players honor gain to 2, Dirty politics reduces it to zero, I lose 2 honor. C) Something else
  A: Dirty Politics is "before" an honor gain occurs, manipulating it before In Time of War does anything. Zen Faulkes, "In time of War and Dirty Politics", 8 Dec 2008
• Q: Can someone explain the effect? Does it mean that after you reveal this card no player (including yourself) can win more than 5 in honor per turn?
  [Mod edit: Thread title. -ZF]
  A: Hello, and welcome to the game!
  Just a couple tidbits of general forum info first:
  Here in the Rules forum, the only "someone"s that can reply to your questions are the intrepid team of Official Rules Guys.
  For newb-tastic questions not in desperate need of an Official Answer (TM) from one of us, any kindly veteran player can answer your questions here, in the stickied "New Player Questions" thread in the general "Strategy" section.
  As to In Time of War:
  Yes, if the Event successfully resolves (ie, isn't negated by Forewarning or suchlike), then, "Until the end of the game", no player can gain (we only tend to use the term "win" in relation to battles, duels, or when the game is over ) more than 5 Honor during any player's turn than they had at the start of the turn. Now, that means if you somehow also LOSE Honor during that turn, you can gain overall more than 5, just so long as your total isn't 5 more than it was when the turn began. Also, partial gains in excess of that 5 are negated, like if you've already gained 3, not lost any, and an effect gives you 4, those extra 2 are negated. Brook Cunningham, "In Time of War", 20 Apr 2008
• Q: Situation:
  I have a Kanjuro with Suitengus Surge and three Tengoku Accolytes.
  In Time of War is in play.
  I surge. Returning to play before the beginning of the next turn.
  Question:
  Do I gain 6 honor from my Accolytes or 5 honor due to ITOW?
  Thank you.
  A: Six. Suitengu's Surge text says, "before the beginning of the next turn," and In Time of War starts counting "when the turn began." [ML, 5 January 2005] Zen Faulkes, "In time of War vs Surge", 14 Mar 2005
• Q: Zen Faulkes wrote:
  Six. Suitengu's Surge text says, "before the beginning of the next turn," and In Time of War starts counting "when the turn began." [ML, 5 January 2005]
  Wouldn't this mean I will gain 5 honor (or even less) because I count for the turn I am STILL on (the same one when the Surge happened)?
  A: No. "In reference to the direct question about "In Time of War," effects that happen "before the beginning" of the turn (say with Suitengu's Surge) will completely skirt around the Honor-cap, since it is after the last turn ended, but before In Time of War has established a new cap for the turn." Zen Faulkes, "Re: Surge vs In time of War", 14 Mar 2005