Kosaten Shiro

Legend of the Five Rings card from Gold Edition, Soul of the Empire, L5R Experience

Card Type

Stronghold

Province Strength

5

Gold Production

4

Starting Family Honor

6

Clan

Crane

Card Text

Gold- and Honor-producing Holdings enter play for you for 1 less Gold, to a minimum of 1, but will not have their costs changed in any other way.

Legality

Four Winds (Gold), Hidden Emperor (Jade)

Deck

Pre-Game

Notes

The SOTE edition had two versions, the Fixed had a regular back, the storyline back was Uncommon.

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, "Kosaten Shiro 5PS 4GP 6FH Goldand Honor-producing Holdings cost 1 less Gold for you, to a minimum of 1, but cannot have their costs changed in any other way." [MRP, Gold Edition, 1 July 2001] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 148
• Yoritomo Sensei cannot further reduce the cost of your holdings. [JA, 21 July 2000] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 148
• Fantastic Gardens cost 6G for Kosaten Shiro players (see Costs). [JA, 25 July 2000] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 148
• Holdings' costs cannot be increased. [Stronghold text, ZF, 1 August 2000] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 148
• Q: How much does Fantastic Gardens cost for a Kosaten Shiro player? A: 6 Gold. The text about Fantastic Gardens costing a Crane player 5 Gold is a change, because it results in a cost that's different from the printed value of 7. Because it's a change, the Stronghold's text prevents it. The Imperial Herald, Issue 17, p. 40

Rules Q&A

• Q: Does a Small Farm cost 1 gold out of Kosaten Shiro?
  A: No. From the Archive (http://www.legendofthefiverings.com/rulings#Stronghold_boxes), ""Holdings' costs cannot be increased." Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 4 July 2003", 4 Jul 2003
• Q: 1) I am playing Shiro Ide, my opponent is playing Kosaten Shiro. If I were to take control of a Marketplace (that cost 1 for them), would it produce 1 additional Gold when bowed for a Cavalry card?
  A: Shiro Ide checks the current Gold cost of the Holding. It would get Shiro Ide's bonus production. Jeff Alexander, "post for 3 March 2003", 4 Mar 2003
• Q: Does a holding with a * gold cost have a printed value of 0?
  A: You have to read each card on a case by case basis. See Archive, General Rules, Bonuses and Penalties. It's the first entry. Moneylender's printed cost is variable, not 0. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 30-31 December 2002", 31 Dec 2002
• Q: What's the gold cost of the South Wall of Otosan-Uchi experienced for a Kosaten Shiro player?
  A: The active player gets to decide which exclusive reduction applies every time its Gold cost is needed. [archive] He can pick 5 or 3. Jeff Alexander, "post for 17 September 2002", 19 Sep 2002
• Q: Comments Below:
  I'm not sure when you heard that. I don't think they're doing very well in Britain, but I gather that they do better on the Continent.
  [KAI] Well, this was back a few months, but it was definitely a Jeff Alexander / Dave Willams quote. You can go back into the archives on Deathseeker or Yahoo! if you don't want to take my word for it.
  Basically, some players said: Kosaten Shiro Crane is over powered, they won a bunch of GSTs and Jade Champion etc. etc. AEG guys basically dismissed the appeal by saying, "Why isn't Crane dominating Europe, then?"
  A: That's odd considering our data on the European scene for the past couple of months put Shadowlands, Crane, Unicorn, and Lion as the top four factions. Jeff Alexander, "post for 26 July 2002", 27 Jul 2002
• Q: It has already been ruled that the reduction of 2 gold takes presidence over the stronghold ability and that Kosaten Shiro players can bring it in for 5 gold like all other Crane strongholds.
  A: No it hasn't. The ruling is the exact opposite of that, and becomes moot anyway with the MRP of Fantastic Gardens that makes the net 5g cost for Crane an unequivocable change from the basic 7. (It says "2 Gold less" instead of "5 Gold".) Jeff Alexander, "post for 22 July 2002", 23 Jul 2002
• Q: Well, I guess I am going to have to learn how to read the rulings. What I did, before I asked the question, is :
  1 - Went to the web page where the rulings are
  2 - hot the Specific Cards and Strongholds 3 - went down alphabetically to find kosaten something
  4 - It was not there
  5 - So I asked the question to the gurus
  next time...... I will hit the search key instead......
  A: Something else you should do is look up every card and Stronghold involved in the question. It wouldn't have helped in this case, but there are others where it does. Jeff Alexander, "post for 22 July 2002", 23 Jul 2002
• Q: Card says that honor producing holding cos 1 less
  Fantastic gardens cost 7 but 5 for a Crane player
  do I need to pay 4 gold or 6 gold.
  I the cost of 5 for a crane player considered a change ?
  A: If you check the MRP of Fantastic Gardens, it reads "Costs 2 less Gold for a Crane Clan player" instead of the older "Costs 5 Gold". It's clearly a change now. A Kosaten Shiro player can't benefit from this reduction. Jeff Alexander, "post for 19 July 2002", 22 Jul 2002
• Q: Two 50-card decks, Kosaten Shiro (Crane) vs. Yogo Towers (Scorpion). Contents and complexity geared towards two neophyte players facing off against one another with an experienced player providing instruction. Cards will not have simplified or omitted game text.
  Cheer, yay, cheer!
  This means these cards won't fall under the 'these cards do not count towards MRP' rule that the previous two sets have?
  A: They'll still fall under it, just for completeness. Although no cards have had their effects simplified or reduced, some cards HAVE been slightly reworded to address frequent questions new players commonly have about them. Jeff Alexander, "post for 11 March 2002", 12 Mar 2002
• Q: Hi List, just wanna be sure about this one:
  If I play Trading Grounds for a holding, does it still produce 4 gold......
  I think so but ya never know !
  A: Sure. Why would it not? Jeff Alexander, "post for 24 January 2002", 24 Jan 2002
• Q: Actually, all cards that have been re-printed have had the "costs X less for so-and-so" rather than having "costs Y for so-and-so". As the rulings archive says, all cards using the latter format should be treated like the former.
  A: They do? Where? I don't recall a global ruling being made that all "costs X instead of Y" cards are to be read as "costs Z less" cards. The ruling is that this is a reduction and a change if X is less than Y, which is subtly different. Jeff Alexander, "post for 10 January 2002", 11 Jan 2002
• Q: The point I'm trying to get across is that I have noticed two ways in the L5R that a card with differing costs can get printed. One is the 'this card cost x less gold for y clan', the other is 'this card costs x gold for y clan'.
  The implication in the first one is a reduction in cost, in the second that the cost is different, but not reduced. Hence the query.
  A: The second case has also been ruled to be a reduction, since it's changing one number to a different, smaller number. Jeff Alexander, "post for 9 January 2002", 10 Jan 2002
• Q: Hello,
  I checked the Archive, and I missed the answer (if there was one). So...
  If you use Crossroads and Kosaten Shiro, how does that work?
  A: Badly. Kosaten Shiro reduces the cost of all your holdings by one, but locks out any further modifications. Crossroads *is* a further modification (albeit a fairly nice one). The Crossroads have no effect - though rumor has it that if you wait there long enough, Fu Leng will come out of the night to make a deal for your Soul... Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for August 22nd, Part Two", 22 Aug 2001
• Q: If you are playing with the MRPed Kosaten Shiro, can you still bring in Small Farms for 0 gold?
  A: The minimum only applies when you're actually reducing a cost -- which you're not in the case of Small Farms.
  And with that, I now return you to your regularly scheduled Lead Designer! Take it away, Jeff! Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 5 July 2001", 6 Jul 2001
• Q: Ok I am confused...
  The accumulated rulings contains the following ruling on sensei: "Once the game begins, a player with -19 honor may freely play Sensei that changes starting family honor, as this does not affect current Honor. [FAQ 3.10]"
  OK, a scenario.
  I am playing Kosaten Shiro Crane, Kage Sensei.
  The game begins, I play Kage Sensei...and my starting honor drops to 4. What is my 'current' honor when I begin my first turn?
  A: If you're talking about your initial, free, start-of-the- game Sensei, then you play Kage Sensei first, and THEN the game begins, with you at a starting AND a current Family Honor of 4. Jeff Alexander, "Rulings for 22 January 2001", 25 Jan 2001
• Q: If I use Entrench as an Open action to get a Poorly Placed Gardens (5 gold Honor producing holding and fortification), and I am playing with Kosaten Shiro, I have to pay 4 gold to bring the PPG into play, correct?
  A: Yup. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for January 10th", 10 Jan 2001
• Q: My friend is playing a Crane deck, Kosaten Shiro. It said that gold and honor producing holdings cost 1 less gold for me, to a minimum of 0, but cannot have their costs changed in any other way. If i use fantastic gardens, which originally cost 7 gold but 5 gold for crane players, how much do i really get it out? 6 or 4 gold?
  A: 6. Use Poorly Placed Garden and Entrench instead. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for January 2nd", 2 Jan 2001
• Q: 2/ Kosaten Shiro reduces gold and honour producing holdings by 1 gold, but the costs cannot be reduced further. Fantastic Gardens normally cost 7, but cost 5 for a Crane - does that count as a reduction, or is it the base cost? (ie: will it cost 6,5, or 4, assuming KS is in play?)
  A: It costs 6. This is something that people still have problems with, but essentialy the KS reduction overrides any other reductions that would be applied to your holdings. The 'costs 5 for Crane' counts as a reduction, so KS will override it. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for November 13th", 13 Nov 2000