Koshin Keep

Legend of the Five Rings card from Emperor Edition, Emperor Edition Demo Decks, Promotional–Emperor

Card Type

Stronghold

Province Strength

7

Gold Production

4

Starting Family Honor

2

Clan

Mantis

Card Text

Recon Reaction: After engaging: You have Reconnaissance at the current battlefield. Until this battle ends, your Ranged Attacks that do not destroy their target have the additional effects, "reduce the target's Force by the Ranged Attack's strength and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card".

Legality

Age of Conquest (Emperor)

Deck

Pre-Game

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: Ok... you mentioned it would not kill the personalities with followers. But you mentioned in the previous topic that it could? (re: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=102742 ) Or am I misunderstanding? What order do the additional actions for range strikes come in?
  I ask because of the situation I described, with Hosigeru popping off a range strike on everyone... if Kanade pops off the followers with the additional actions generated from Koshin Keep, would the restriction on personalities w/followers no longer apply for the additional action on them after Kanade kills his/her followers?
  (Sorry for pestering, but this is an interesting combo and this also gives me insight for future issues combos like this may generate)
  re: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=102810
  A: Hosigeru does simultaneous ranged attacks, which means they can only target cards that were targetable when the original action was used. A Personality with followers was not a legal target at that time, and Koshin Keep won't let you later target them during the resolution of Hosigeru's action and Koshin Keep's follow-up actions. Jon Palmer, "Another question regarding Koshin Keep/Phoenix combo", 16 Apr 2013
• Q: Just a clarification and expansion on viewtopic.php?f=59&t=102742
  With Koshin Keep and Asako Hosigeru, it's pretty much a "Blackened Skies. But with Isawa Kaname as well, does this mean: pop Asako, kill entire enemy army?
  And how would one go step by step on this? For example, would this be how it works in the following:
  Asako targets Personality 1, with follower 1 and 2, personality 2, and personality 3 with follower three. Kaname pops off Follower three, then personality three, then personality 2, then follower 2 then 1, then personality one.
  I assume this is how it works...
  Relevant Text:
  Isawa Kaname Phoenix Clan • Fire • Shugenja • Yojimbo Text Reaction: After a Ranged Attack is targeted: Give the Ranged Attack +2 strength. Battle: Any number of times per turn: Ranged 1 Attack.
  A: It wouldn't kill anyone with followers, an effect that prevents Ranged Attacks, an effect that prevents force reduction, or an event that prevents destruction. But have fun killing everyone else. Jon Palmer, "In reference to Asako Hosigeru & Koshin Keep", 15 Apr 2013
• Q: Since Palmer was nice enough to remind me he existed in another thread, I have a couple questions on the interaction between Asako Hosigeru and Koshin Keep.
  1. At a battlefield where I have used Koshin Keep's Reaction, if I blow up Hosigeru to use his action, I get additional actions to continue shooting every target that did not die from the range 1, correct? I assume this would work like a pseudo Blacked Skies where I could just move from target to target and use whatever Ranged Attacks are necessary?
  2. If I started an arrow chain with a different range attack I cannot use Hosigeru because Koshin Keep's reaction specifies that the range attack can ONLY target the original card? I figure that this is the case because Hosigeru simultaneously targets everything, even though he is technically still targeting the original target.
  Asako Hosigeru: Battle: Bow and destroy Hosigeru: Simultaneous Ranged 1 Attacks targeting every enemy Follower and Personality, even those with attached Followers; the strength of these Ranged Attacks will not be increased.
  Koshin Keep: Recon Reaction: After engaging: You have Reconnaissance at the current battlefield. Until this battle ends, your Ranged Attacks that do not destroy their target have the additional effects, "reduce the target's Force by the Ranged Attack's strength and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card".
  A: You are correct. You can get a similar effect with I Know That Trick as well. Jon Palmer, "Asako Hosigeru & Koshin Keep", 10 Apr 2013
• Q: viewtopic.php?p=1344054#p1344054
  Yoritomo Tansen: Battle: Ranged 3 Attack or give the current battlefield's province -3 strength.
  If I announce Tansen's battle action as a Koshin Keep effect additional action, am I required to choose 'ranged 3 attack' or am I able to choose the -3 province strength effect? Is an action with an optional or conditional ranged attack effect always a ranged attack action?
  A: The additional action you take must be a Ranged Attack action; that is, it must create a Ranged Attack as one of its effects.
  If there are choices in the action which determine whether the action creates a Ranged Attack or not, you must make that choice so that it does; otherwise it is not a Ranged Attack action and doesn't meet the conditions of taking it. Alex Jones, "re: Koshin Keep", 7 Mar 2013
• Q: Does viewtopic.php?f=59&t=101661 reverse viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95539&p=1266380&hilit=koshin+keep#p1266380 since there is only one legal target for the additional ranged attack granted by Koshin Keep's effect?
  A: No.
  The difference between the two is that Plains of Glass specifically overrides the only functionality of the Conquerer rule - it has to be allowed to be taken twice, or it could not work at all (similar to how Hidden Defenses doesn't need explicit wording to overcome the Rule of Presence).
  Koshin Keep doesn't allow any such thing, it just sets a requirement that you target the same Personality. You can play another No Hiding Place, or, y'know, shoot someone who isn't at home to begin with. Jon Palmer, "Koshin Keep", 1 Feb 2013
• Q: Does the effect on Shosuro Aroru Exp 2's Battle action ("Other players may not take Reactions until this action ends") extend through to any additional Ranged Attack Battle actions granted by Koshin's Keep?
  I would think so since the granting of an additional ranged attack by Kioshin Keep is an effect added to Aroru's Ranged 5 Attack, and thus must resolve completely until Aroru's battle action resolves.
  Example: I have Shosuro Aroru Exp 2 in Play with a Seige Volley in Hand. My opponent has a 9 Force Beserker and a Precision in hand (why Beserkers would play Precision, I don't know). I used Koshin Keep Reaction upon engaging. I announce Shosuro Aroru ability to target the Beserker with the Ranged attack and follow up with Seige Volley. Can my opponent every play his Precision (or even react with his box to delay the destruction for that matter)?
  A: An additional action granted by one action is taken after the current action has finished and after effects and Reactions triggered by the end of the action have finished; the quoted effect ends such effects and Reactions are triggered..
  See Additional Action: When an additional action is granted while a non-Reaction action is in progress, the timing of the additional action is delayed: the opportunity to take it happens once the current non-Reaction action has ended, and once the opportunity to play Reactions to the end of the action has passed. Alex Jones, "Koshin Keep + Shosuro Aroru Exp 2", 28 Oct 2012
• Q: Say I use a range attack on someone in an ambush battle while I have it reconed with the stronghold. I don't kill them, but reduce the force by the range attacks strength. If that personality lives will he still have the force penalty or does it only last until the end of the battle.
  Koshin Keep Recon Reaction: After engaging: You have Reconnaissance at the current battlefield. Until this battle ends, your Ranged Attacks that do not destroy their target have the additional effects, "reduce the target's Force by the Ranged Attack's strength and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card".
  The bold text made my friend argue the force penalty was just for the battle.
  A: The force penalty on Koshin Keep does not list the duration, so therefore by default it is until the end of the turn. Jon Palmer, "Koshin Keep Force penelty", 12 Oct 2012
• Q: After reading the text of Koshin keep: Recon Reaction: After engaging: You have Reconnaissance at the current battlefield. Until this battle ends, your Ranged Attacks that do not destroy their target have the additional effects, "reduce the target's Force by the Ranged Attack's strength and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card".
  Does the part thay I marked as bold mean that any other target would not be legal? Would that mean that only the first ranged attack (in the case that you should chain more than one to kill a personality/follower) would be allowed to be redirected with Ryoshun's, Benten, Chugo Seido, etc.?
  Thanks in advance
  A: Correct. Follow-up ranged attacks may not be retargeted in this situation. Jon Palmer, "Koshin Keep and redirection", 7 Oct 2012
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99897
  Lets say that the mantis player used Koshin Keeps reaction, and declared Naval. After announcing his naval ranged attack action, the defender reacts with Entrenched Position. The ranged attack would be negated, there would be no force reduction, and there would be no chance for an additional ranged attack targeting the same card, correct?
  A: Entrenched Position negates all of the announced Battle action's ("its") effects.
  As I said above, the extra effects added by Koshin Keep are effects of the action that created the Ranged Attack, so they would be negated as well. Brook Cunningham, "Koshin Keep and Negation", 4 Oct 2012
• Q: If a ranged attack is completely negated, do you still get the force reduction and additional ranged attack via Koshin Keep's reaction?
  A: It depends on what you mean by "completely negated". The text of the negation effect would help in giving you a definite answer.
  However, I hope it helps to say that the extra effects added by Koshin Keep are effects of the action that created the Ranged Attack as well as additional effects of the non-killing Ranged Attack itself. Brook Cunningham, "Koshin Keep and Negation", 1 Oct 2012
• Q: I was playing my EE Mantis starter deck, and I came upon a combo almost immediately that made me pause.
  Tsuruchi Tomaru says "Battle: Twice per turn: Ranged 3 Attack."
  Koshin Keep says "Recon Reaction: After engaging: You have Reconnaissance at the current battlefield. Until this battle ends, your Ranged Attacks that do not destroy their target have the additional effects, "reduce the target's Force by the Ranged Attack's strength and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card".
  I was defending with Tomaru against two attacking Spider personalities. One was 6F and one was 4F. As the defender, I led with Tomaru's ranged attack, after engaging the Stronghold's Reaction, of course. I targeted the 6F personality, didnt kill him but dropped his Force by 3. The Reaction kicked in and I got a second (free) attack at Strength 3, finishing the 6F off.
  I then took my second Ranged attack, per Tomaru's Battle action. This Strength 3 attack also didnt kill the 4F guy, but dropped him down to 1F, so that the subsequent free attack also killed him.
  Is this right? My little guy killed 2 personalities that were larger than he was with nearly instant ranged death? It seemed a little too fantastic. I explained how I thought it would work to my opponent, declared that I was NOT going to do it (because it was his first game and not mine), and ended up losing the battle...but I sure need clarification on this one!
  Thanks in advance.
  A: Koshin Keep does not give you a "free" ranged attack, it gives you an additional action to use a Ranged Attack ability.
  So, after engaging you use Koshin Keep's Reaction, then as your first action you use Tomaru's ability for the first time to do a Ranged 3 against the 6F Personality. This doesn't kill him, so the ongoing effect of Koshin Keep's Reaction reduces his force by three and you may take an additional action. For this, you use Tomaru's ability for the second time to do a Ranged 3 against the original target, who now dies. Your opponent now gets his first opportunity to take a Battle action (or pass).
  Note also, that Tomaru doesn't give you two Ranged Attacks from one action. You may use the ability twice, but each use is a separate action. So, if you were facing a 3F Personality and a 4F Personality, you could kill the 3F Personality with your first action, but your opponent would then get his opportunity to take a Battle action. If Tomaru is still around, you could then use his ability for your second action and reduce the 4F Personality to 1F.
  See Abilities and Actions for more information. Alex Jones, "Tsuruchi Tomaru and Mantis' Koshin Keep combo", 1 May 2012
• Q: I'm writing because a question appeared in my head after reading this thread. It is stated there, that reaction granted by Koshin Keep allows us to destroy only 1 card per RA sequence, but what about Thunder's Wrath?
  Thunder's Wrath: "Battle: Destroy this card: Ranged 4 Attack with +2 strength if it targets a Follower. If this Shugenja is Thunder and the Ranged Attack destroyed a Follower, Ranged 4 Attack."
  Koshin Keep: "Recon Reaction: After engaging: You have Reconnaissance at the current battlefield. Until this battle ends, your Ranged Attacks that do not destroy their target have the additional effects, "reduce the target's Force by the Ranged Attack's strength and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card"."
  Let's say that we have a 5F personality with a massive followe attached, let's say something with another 8F. First is some minor RA3 into follower, followed with a destruction of our spell, that gives us RA 9 total into follower which is enough to kill him. Because our spell destroyed a Follower we can now make another RA 4. And here is my exact question - can this additional RA benefit from Koshin Keep bonus and therefor we can kill more than one kard with a continious ranged sequence?
  A: Edited for clarity:
  If follower's destruction from Thunder's Wrath is taken via an additional action granted by Koshin Keep, because the Ranged 4 is part of the same Ranged Attack Battle Action, it would still need to target the same card (per Koshin Keep's text).
  If the follower's destruction from Thunder's Wrath is not via a Koshin Keep additional action, then the Ranged 4 may start a Koshin Keep ranged attack chain, for lack of a better word, on its target. Jon Palmer, "Koshin Keep + Thunder's Wrath", 29 Apr 2012
• Q: Can the extra ranged attacks from Koshin Keep target through followers if the first shot is by Toritaka's ability?
  The scenario:
  1. Koshin Keep Recon Reaction. 2. Toritaka uses her ability and a ranged attack is made against a personality with attached followers, but does not kill him.
  Can the "and you may take an additional Ranged Attack Battle action that may only target the same card" allow other ranged attacks in her army to attack the personality, or is she SOL because other ranged attacks would need to target the followers?
  A: As was ruled here with Strategic Strike, the follow-up Ranged Attacks from Koshin Keep do not inherit an special targeting allowances from the initial Ranged Attack.
  In your example, you would need to follow up with another Ranged Attack that could target the Personality past their Follower, either with another copy of Chokichi or a Strategic Strike. Ben Higgins, "Koshin Keep and Toritaka Chokichi", 26 Apr 2012
• Q: Does Koshin Keep allow you to endlessly use ranged attacks? I guess the question is this: Does the extra attack it allows you to take also trigger it's ability? So you could burn through all of your ranged attacks before your opponent gets a chance to act?
  A: Yes to all questions, HOWEVER (and it's a BIG "however")...
  ...note that the trait on Koshin Keep denotes that your subsequent additional Ranged Attacks "may only target the same card". So, you could potentially use up all your Ranged Attacks before the other player gets an action, on a particularly high-Force card and/or one that keeps negating the Force penalties from your Stronghold's trait, but the end result will not be the destruction of any more than one card. Brook Cunningham, "Koshin Keep", 23 Apr 2012
• Q: Couldn't find a way to reply to this in the thread so I thought I'd just PM you, sorry. To expand further on the first answer concerning Isawa Kaname, can a player use the Koshin Keep ability to, in one attack, destroy a target? For example, Isawa Kaname targets Ohaba(6F Personality) with a Ranged 1 Attack. The ranged attack does not kill him, but reduces Ohaba's force by 1. Since the ranged attack didn't destroy Ohaba the player takes an additional action to make another ranged 1 attack to reduce Ohaba's force by another 1. Again, the ranged attack didn't destroy the target so can the additional action trait repeat in that same turn?
  A: You cannot reply to messages by deliberate policy to reduce the amount of noise. If you have a follow-up question, you need to start a new thread: we will deal with merging, if appropriate.
  To answer the actual question, out of Koshin Keep, Isawa Kaname can reduce a Personality or Follower to 1F (not 0F, as another PM pointed out!) and destroy it using just one normal opportunity to take a Battle action plus the required number of additional Battle actions, before the other (or next) player gets his next normal opportunity to take a Battle action. Alex Jones, "Koshin Keep + Once per turn ranged ability", 3 Apr 2012
• Q: I am completely confused by Koshin Keep. Can someone clarify it for me by answering the following questions:
  1) Does Koshin Keep's ability to use an additional ranged attack occur immediately after the first one? In other words, does the opponent get a chance to respond in between ranged attacks?
  2) Does the ability allow a single unit to attack twice? Say I have Tsuruchi Saya with Ranged 5. Can she take two attacks with Koshin Keep? Or does the Keep merely allow you to use two ranged attack abilities from different sources?
  A: The answer is b).
  Koshin Keep granting an "additional action" just means you get an additional action before the other player's normal opportunity to take a Battle action in that battle. It does not grant an additional use of your Personality's ability. Brook Cunningham, "Koshin Keep + Once per turn ranged ability", 26 Mar 2012
• Q: In response to this: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95860
  If I target a 5F monk with a Ranged 5 attack and he overlays, does he still get the force penalty from Koshin Keep?
  What about if I target the monk with a Ranged 3, and then another Ranged 3, after which the monk overlays? Does the new personality produced have a force penalty?
  A: No. These are ongoing effects, which only stick with the overlaid Personality, not the overlaying Personality. Jon Palmer, "Re: Koshin Keep vs Overlay", 14 Mar 2012