Arrival of the Obsidian Champion

Legend of the Five Rings card from Celestial Edition, Path of Hope, Samurai Edition

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Card Text

Open: Target your Personality with a Gold Cost of 9 or higher: Lose 3 Honor. Dishonor him. Permanently set his Force to 10 and his Chi to 2. Permanently give him Shadowlands and the ability, "Fear Battle: Target a unit: Bow each Follower in it with 4 or lower Force."

Focus Value

3

Legality

Age of Enlightenment (Lotus), Destroyer War (Celestial), Race for the Throne (Samurai)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion 0G 2FV Open: Lose 3 Honor. Dishonor your target Personality with a Gold Cost of 9 or higher. Permanently set his Force to 10 and his Chi to 2. Permanently give him Shadowlands and the ability, “Fear Battle: Bow each Follower with 4 or lower Force in a target unit.”" [MRP, Celestial Edition, 29 June 2009] Comprehensive Rules, Celestial Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, February 2012, p. 121
• Erratum: Reads, "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion 0G 3FV Open: Lose 3 Honor. Dishonor one of your target Personalities with a Gold Cost of 9 or greater. Permanently set his Force to 10 and his Chi to 2. Permanently give him Shadowlands and the ability, "Fear Battle: Bow each Follower with 4 or less Force in a target unit." " [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007] Comprehensive Rules, Samurai Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, May 2009, p. 122

Rules Q&A

• Q: Hello,
  I looked for this question but couldn't find it, sorry if it has already been asked or posted!
  I was playing a casual game with a good friend and we ran into a situation where we were disagreed on the wording of the card "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion."
  In the name of honor and keeping a great friendship intact (I was losing anyways) we decided to play on, and afterward we would come here and find out.
  The card states you select a Personality, and permanently set his force to 10, and his chi to 2.
  He played this card on his personality. I was playing against him with a Mantis deck, specifically using the strong hold Kyuden Ashinagabachi, which allows you to essentially chip away at an enemy personality's force if you cannot destroy it with a ranged attack.
  I went into the battle with the idea that I could deal a total of 10 Ranged Attack damage to the Obsidian Champion, thus destroying him. My opponent argued that his force was permanently set at 10 no matter what, and that I couldn't reduce it with battle actions. I thought his base value was changed and considered 10 but could still be reduced.
  Which is correct? Is his personality's force forever placed at force 10? Or can his force be reduced during battle?
  Any help would be appreciated. Again it was a casual game setting. I lost the game due to a few other mistakes but I do think if I was right in this situation it would have changed the outcome.
  Thanks!
  -The Spitfired
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Glossary_P-Q#Permanent.28ly.29: "Having a duration until the end of the game. A permanent cost or effect can still be ended by other effects, such as negation."
  To which I add that permanent does not mean "cannot be altered." It's about duration, not what can happen to it. Permanent bonuses can be reduced, increased, etc. Zen Faulkes, "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion and the word "Permanently"", 27 May 2011
• Q: Direct Approach & Arrival of the Obsidian Champion
  Today a friend of mine came up with a combo using these two cards. I have a hard time believing it works. Maybe you people can help us decide who's right.
  My friend has a Asako Bairei (Experienced 4) in play. He plays The Direct Approach on him and essentially makes him a zero (actually a -6). Then he plays Arrival of the Obsidian Champion on him and premanently sets his force to 10.
  My friend contends that at the end of the turn, when The Direct Approach wears off, the -9F penalty that was administered will disappear and be added back to Bairei's force total making him a 19F. This does not sound right to me at all.
  Wouldn't Arrival of the Obsidian Champion instantly negate the force penalty given by The Direct Approach?
  i3ullseye, feel free to jump in if I'm not wording the question or scenario correctly.
  A: This works.
  The reason people often don't think it works is because they think "setting" a stat to some value is different from a "bonus." It isn't. See: http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Card_features#S ... to_a_value
  viewtopic.php?f=59&t=62056 viewtopic.php?f=59&t=68696 Zen Faulkes, "Direct Approach & Arrival of the Obsidian Champion", 28 Mar 2011
• Q: Alright, Couldnt seem to find it with the search function. If kazawaru has 2 mained weapon tokens and i use arrival of the obsidian champion does it set hom down to 10 force? i mean im not really sure about that whole scenario. but i think it shoulnt reduce him to 10 if he has the 2 weapons and is currently a 12...
  i dunno can someone help me out here?
  gist of it is
  does kazawaru get smaller if he has the 2 weapon tokens when i arrival him? and if so.....why?
  [Mod edit: Thread title. -ZF]
  A: Arrival of the Obsidian Champion will reduce the force of a card that is currently more than 10 to 10.
  You use current stat values, and do not reapply bonuses (like those from weapons).
  For more, see: http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Card_features#S ... to_a_value Zen Faulkes, "Kazawaru + Arrival of the Obsidian Champion", 5 Oct 2010
• Q: (W)ill Justly Earned Victory negate the effects of cards that award permanent force bonuses like Arrival of the Obsidian Champion and The Last One?
  A: They're from actions. Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Justly Earned Victory and permanent force bonuses", 26 Jul 2009
• Q: ok i think this must of been asked at some point although i cant seem to find it using the search function
  so if i play Arrival of the Obsidian Champion on Utaku Keiko for example, does she gain all of the cards effects in addition to the ones printed on her card? or do they replace them?
  so this would make her the obsidian champ AND a cavalry, tactician?
  Again apologies as i bet this has been asked before but i couldn't find the answer.
  A: Arrival of the Obsidian Champion: Open: Lose 3 Honor. Dishonor one of your target Personalities with a Gold Cost of 9 or greater. Permanently set his Force to 10 and his Chi to 2. Permanently give him Shadowlands and the ability, "Fear Battle: Bow each Follower with 4 or less Force in a target unit."
  Nothing there stipulates that the target Personality loses any traits or abilities. Alex Jones, "Obsidian Champion", 8 Feb 2009
• Q: If I have a Doji "Obsidian Champion" Bob and a Doji Sue, and Doji Sue dies, I use Hope from death to overlay her onto Doji Bob, do the Obsidian Champion effects go away?
  A: No.
  http://rules.l5r.com/Physically_marked_card_states#Overlaying:
  "The underlying card’s attachments, tokens, and game state, including ongoing effects, also apply to the new stack, but this does not transfer or attach anything, or begin or end any game state on a card. Specifically, existing bonuses and penalties to the underlying card’s stats will transfer to the overlaying card."
  Bob's dishonorable game state and all the ongoing effects of Arrival of the Obsidian Champion (Force/Chi bonuses/penalties, Fear ability, Shadowlands keyword) remain.
  But make sure you do the math correctly! Sue's Force/Chi does not become 10/2. Whatever bonuses/penalities were needed to bring Bob's stats to 10F/2C will be applied to Sue, resulting in new numbers if her F/C are different than Bob's (including due to any bonuses and penalities of her own!). Brook Cunningham, "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion + Hope from Death", 16 Jan 2009
• Q: If one of my Moto "Obsidian Champion" Chai is destroyed, if I use Hope from Death, is he overlayed as an Obsidian Champion (with 10 Force, dishonored and his fear ability), or just as a Moto Chai ?
  A: Yes, the overlaying "Obsidian Champion" would still have his Force/Chi bonuses/penalties, Fear ability, and Shadowlands.
  Changes like these aren't "forgotten" unless the card leaves play and goes to an area where it is face-down (see here). That does not occur in your scenario.
  EDIT: I originally answered the new "stack" would still be dishonorable! Wrong-o. The game-state of the new stack (like "honorable" or "dishonorable") is goverened by the underlying Personality (see rule quoted below). Sorry. Brook Cunningham, "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion + Hope from Death", 16 Jan 2009
• Q: Regarding this topic...
  I'd just like to confirm that if a personality's CHI changes as a result of being targeted by Arrival of the Obsidian Champion, it would be a bonus or penalty, depending on whether the change to 2C is an increase or decrease, correct? I believe so, because the change in chi doesn't seem to meet any of the exceptions at http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#General_rules_about_stats.
  But I want to make sure...thanks!
  Arrival of the Obsidian Champion
  Open: Lose 3 Honor. Dishonor one of your target Personalities with a Gold Cost of 9 or greater. Permanently set his Force to 10 and his Chi to 2. Permanently give him Shadowlands and the ability, “Fear Battle: Bow each Follower with 4 or less Force in a target unit.”
  A: You needed to look further down in your own Rules Wiki link:
  "Setting stats to a value: Various effects will set a stat to some particular value, such as effects that switch or copy stats. To set a stat to a value, give an appropriate bonus or penalty." Brook Cunningham, "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion and Chi Penalty/Bonus", 8 Jun 2008
• Q: The Tale of Tsukuro (R) Cost: 0; Focus: 4. Unique. Limited: Lose 8 Honor. Your target Personality permanently gains Shadowlands and the ability: “Battle: Move one or more of your target Shadowlands Personalities to the current battlefield.”
  Note that the underlined part is between the first colon (after the designator) and the second colon. This is what the rules define as "constraints block".
  Constraints block
  1. In an action, text between the two colons (that is, between the designator and the effects block) that can include conditions, costs, some (but not necessarily all) targeting, and triggers.
  That means that the costs of The Tale of Tsukuro are: -Losing 8 Honor -Giving Shadowlands permanently to a target personality -Giving an ability permanently to that target
  Is that correct?
  EDIT Note: Please let me point that other cards that grant abilities to other cards use commas to separate the granted ability from the rest of the text. See Arrival of the Obsidian Champion as an example of this.
  A: We had you covered 21 days ago, my friend.
  http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_T#The_Tale_of_Tsukuro "Reads, "The Tale of Tsukuro 0G 4FV Unique. Limited: Lose 8 Honor. Your target Personality permanently gains Shadowlands and the ability, "Battle: Move one or more of your target Shadowlands Personalities to the current battlefield." " [Minor correction, 1 May 2008; comma substituted for misprinted colon]" Brook Cunningham, "The Tale of Tsukuro", 22 May 2008
• Q: What if the guy I'm swapping is dishonored, is he still dishonored, or rehonored? What if said person was targeted with Arrival of the Obsidian Champion? Or Utter Defeat?
  A: I believe this covers all 3 of the above questions (as the second two were follow-ups, in case I said "rehonored", which I'm not):
  http://rules.l5r.com/Physically_marked_card_states#Honorable_and_dishonorable: "A Personality out of play can be dishonorable if he or she is face-up. Leaving or entering play does not change a Personality’s dishonorable or honorable status." Brook Cunningham, "Kharmic Confrontation and attachments", 11 May 2008
• Q: A personality has an "Arrival of the Obsidian Champion" played on it, reacted to with a "Determination".
  During the same turn, the a player plays the second action of "Justly earned Victory" on the personality, and reactions with a Determination to it.
  Will the Force Bonus be negated?
  A: The Justly Earned Victory will negate the Force Bonus - just like any other case of Active Effect w/ Determination meets Negating Effect w/ Determination. Martin Lund, "Determination vs. Determination", 4 Feb 2008
• Q: (I)f I play and action to give one of my personalities a permanent force boost through something like Vision of Pan'ku or Arrival of the Obsidian Champion, and it is negated by Justly Earned Victory. Would the force boost return once the turn ends or does it getting negated by Justly Earned Victory destroy the force bonus completely?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Duration_o ... on_effects: "(A) non-continuous negation effect should be interpreted as an instantaneous negation that only ends existing ongoing effects, with no effect on continuous effects or new ongoing effects."
  http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Duration_of_effects: "Ongoing effects last until the end of the turn in which they occur unless otherwise indicated. For instance, 'permanent' or 'until' a certain game time are phrases that override the default 'end of turn' duration."
  Permanent force bonuses are ongoing effects. They are negated. They don't come back. Zen Faulkes, "Justly Earned Victory vs. Vision of Pan'ku", 18 Jan 2008
• Q: Is "Permanently set his Force to 10" considered as a bonus?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Gene ... bout_stats: "Any change in a stat’s value is considered a bonus (if increased) or penalty (if decreased), with the following exceptions:"
  For the sake of space, I'll tell you that Arrival of the Obsidian Champion doesn't meet any of those exceptions. Zen Faulkes, "Justly Earned Victory & Arrival of the Obsidian Champion", 26 Sep 2007