Low Stance

Legend of the Five Rings card from Glory of the Empire, Battle of Kyuden Tonbo

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Card Text

As a Focus Effect: Before this duel's resolution, negate all bonuses to each focused card's Focus Value until the duel ends.
Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Samurai Personality and target an enemy Personality: After this Combat Segment ends, reduce his Force to 0.

Focus Value

4

Legality

Destroyer War (Celestial), Race for the Throne (Samurai)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Focus Effect reads, "Focus Effect: Before this duel’s resolution, negate all bonuses to each focused card’s Focus Value until the duel ends." [Erratum, RGS, 4 January 2011] Comprehensive Rules, Celestial Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, February 2012, p. 144

Rules Q&A

• Q: Does Low Stance's battle action ("...After this Combat Segment ends, reduce his force to 0.") and Heart of Darkness' trait ("Before this battle's resolution:...") have the same timing window? Meaning, the active player gets to choose which happens first?
  A: No, they do not.
  "After" one phase/segment "ends" is a distinct point in time from "before" the next phase/segment "begins", and the former always comes before the latter. Brook Cunningham, "Low Stance / Heart of Darkness", 6 Oct 2011
• Q: If your personality gets hit by Low Stance (or any delayed effect) and you move them home, can I assume that they will still get reduced to 0F during resolution despite not being at the battle anymore?
  A: Yes.
  Nothing on the card limits the effect to any location; it only specifies a time it occurs. Zen Faulkes, "Low Stance vs Location", 20 Apr 2011
• Q: In response to Zen's question here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88191#p1167447
  It would make a difference if Ochiai xp3 is in a duel where Low Stance is focused: (See: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88018#p1164308)
  If the reading is "current bonuses," then order of resolution of the traits matters.
  If the reading is "current and new bonuses," then order of resolution doesn't matter.
  A: Since it doesn't specify "current" or "new", it will negate all bonuses (current AND new) for its duration, which is now only until the duel ends, rather than the end of the turn. Brook Cunningham, "Low Stance", 5 Jan 2011
• Q: The new wording of Low Stance's Focus Effect: Focus Effect: Before this duel’s resolution, negate all bonuses to each focused card’s Focus Value until the duel ends.
  Is the default reading of this: "Negate all current bonuses" a la Justly Earned Victory
  OR
  "Negate all current and new bonuses" a la Resilient Naginata
  A: Under what situations would it matter? Specifics help clarify the problem so we can answer it more precisely. Zen Faulkes, "Low Stance", 5 Jan 2011
• Q: Following http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88018
  Do negation effects negate all new bonuses/penalties by default now too? Meaning that the second sentence on Shameful Injury would no longer be necessary under the new negation rules?
  A: No. You'll notice that Shameful Injury's first sentence specifically negates current bonuses. Even carrying on until the end of the turn by default, its negating something "current" will only look at what was current when the effect was applied. Indeed, this is what allows it to suppress the continuous penalties from tokens under the new rules, which it did not before.
  The problem with Low Stance not referencing "current" bonuses and thus being warped by the new rules is being addressed and will likely result in Technical Errata being issued for it to add "current" to its text within the next day or so. Brook Cunningham, "Isawa Ochiai xp3 and Low Stance", 28 Dec 2010
• Q: Ochiai's trait: Before the resolution of a duel involving your Fire Personality at Ochai's location: Give each of your focused cards +1 Focus Value.
  Low Stance: Focus Effect: Before this duel’s resolution, negate all bonuses to each focused card’s Focus Value.
  Since Focus Effects are traits, and both traits have the same trigger, does the timing fall under:
  "B. Anything that is triggered at this point but is not a Reaction happens now. This includes triggered traits, delayed effects, indefinite conditional effects, triggered rulebook effects (such as losing Honor after a dishonourable Personality is destroyed). If more than one of these things conflict, the active player decides the order in which they happen."
  Meaning that the active player could choose to resolve Low Stance before resolving Ochiai?
  A: It won't matter, as negation effects now have a default duration like all other effects of "until the turn ends". Thus, no matter whether Low Stance's Focus Effect is resolved before or after Ochiai's trait, it will negate the bonus she gives. Brook Cunningham, "Isawa Ochiai xp3 and Low Stance", 26 Dec 2010
• Q: Does the focus effect on Low Stance cancel/negate/remove the doubling of a stat?
  A: In other words, "Does doubling a stat give it a bonus?" As mentioned above in the answer above, yes. Something that doubles is giving a bonus and is negated by effects that negate bonuses. Zen Faulkes, "Doubling a Value", 8 Dec 2010
• Q: Regarding this viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77894
  Kohana's trait triggers to the resolution of an action that gives a force penalty. It appears that low stance gives a force penalty to a personality as a delayed effect.
  Kohana's trait reads: After the resolution of an action which gave a Force penalty to any enemy cards at the current battlefield, if Kohana is there: Gain 1 Honor.
  Zen said "Because the trait triggers off of the resolution of an action that has a penalty as one of its base effects, not the actual application of the penalty."
  It appears to me that while kohana reacts to the resolution of an action, she requires the action to give out a force penalty (something low stance does as a delayed effect). Does this mean that kohana's trait would trigger when someone plays, for example, three stone river? I don't understand how kohana's trait will trigger when there is no immediate force penalty when her trait specifically says "which gave a force penalty to any enemy cards." As I see it the sequence for low stance is:
  Play low stance - Low stance resolves. Kohana's trait fails to trigger: there was no force penalty given, only a delayed effect which will create a force penalty. Low stance's delayed effect kicks in, but since low stance has already resolved, kohana's trait can't trigger.
  Can you explain to me why kohana's trait will trigger on low stance when low stance doesn't create a force penalty at the time of its resolution, when her trait specifically requires a force penalty to have been resolved and administered to an enemy personality?
  A: As Zen says, Utaku Kohana exp's trait is not triggered by Low Stance.
  Her trait specifies both a point in time when it triggers and an effect that must have happened by that time. At the timing point when her trait would trigger, Low Stance has not yet created a force penalty. At the effect point when it would trigger, the time is well past. These two are never simultaneously satisfied, so her trait never triggers. Alex Jones, "Utaku Kohana + Low Stance", 28 Jul 2009
• Q: regarding this viewtopic.php?f=59&t=77894
  What happens if a player uses low stance and the targeted personality is subsequently killed? There was no force penalty given, so why does kohana xp's trait still trigger?
  A: Because the trait triggers off of the resolution of an action that has a penalty as one of its base effects, not the actual application of the penalty.
  [See clarification above.] Zen Faulkes, "Utaku Kohana + Low Stance", 28 Jul 2009
• Q: Does Utaku Kohana exp reacts to the battle action of low stance when used?
  A: Kohana's reaction is after action resolution, not the bonus. The key point to answer here is, "When does an action resolve?"
  http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_R#Resolve: "(An action) stops resolving when its sequence of effect activation has ended, even if the application of some effects has been delayed."
  Kohana's trait occurs before the delayed effect kicks in at the end of the Combat Segment. Because her trait refers to the penalty in the past tense ("gave"), the penalty must be an immediate effect, not a delayed effect, for the honor gain to kick in.
  (Clarified / fixed.) Zen Faulkes, "Utaku Kohana + Low Stance", 28 Jul 2009
• Q: I think his explanation is going to cause a lot of problems (no offense to Zen).
  A: A little offense from time to time keeps me honest. Zen Faulkes, "Traditions of Steel vs Low Stance", 27 Jul 2009
• Q: While the active player does get to decide the order of Focus Effects, is it not true that these two cards have a very specific timing for their Focus Effects? Or would the active player get to decide that an opponents Low Stance resolves, and then they get to resolve their own Weigh the Cost, thus essentially having the Low Stance do nothing?
  A: Weigh the Cost has different text, which in turn gives it a different timing than the other cards in question. The effect of Low Stance will always be applied after Weigh the Cost.
  It is true that the relevant "active player chooses" section of the rules is the timing section of the wiki rather than the duels section, which I'd initially included. Zen Faulkes, "Traditions of Steel vs Low Stance", 27 Jul 2009
• Q: While I agree with Zen's primary ruling, I think his explanation is going to cause a lot of problems (no offense to Zen). While the active player does get to decide the order of Focus Effects, is it not true that these two cards have a very specific timing for their Focus Effects? Or would the active player get to decide that an opponents Low Stance resolves, and then they get to resolve their own Weigh the Cost, thus essentially having the Low Stance do nothing?
  Low Stance Focus Effect: Before this duel’s resolution, negate all bonuses to each focused card’s Focus Value.
  Traditions of Steel Focus Effect: Before this duel’s resolution, raise the Focus Value of each of your focused cards to 3.
  Weigh the Cost Focus Effect: Add 1 to the Focus Values of this card and one other of your focused cards.
  A: Weight the Cost's Focus Effect has a different timing than both Low Stance and Traditions of Steel.
  Weigh The Cost's Focus Effect will always occur before Low Stance and Traditions of Steel, as they are worded to act after all other Focus Effects occur (as the Focus Effect of Low Stance and Traditions of Steel happen "Before the Duel's Resolution" which is after all normal Focus Effects.
  The active player does get to decide the order in which all Low Stances and Traditions of Steel occur, however. Dan Jacobson, "Traditions of Steel vs Low Stance", 27 Jul 2009
• Q: (Does Traditions of Steel) trump Low Stance since its Force bonus happens just slightly after Stance's penalty?
  A: Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Traditions of Steel vs Low Stance", 26 Jul 2009
• Q: As for the Focus Effects, would it matter who focused them?
  A: The active player chooses the order of Focus Effects (http://rules.l5r.com/Challenges_and_duels), so yes. Zen Faulkes, "Traditions of Steel vs Low Stance", 26 Jul 2009
• Q: If the two cards were both focused by the same player, would they happen simultaneously, and then would Low Stance negate the bonus from Traditions?
  A: "Simultaneously"? Blasphemer! Again, "All Focus Effect traits on focused cards resolve, one after the other, in an order chosen by the active player" (http://rules.l5r.com/Challenges_and_duels). Zen Faulkes, "Traditions of Steel vs Low Stance", 26 Jul 2009