A Noble End

Legend of the Five Rings card from Khan's Defiance

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Card Text

Battle: Target your performing unbowed Personality and zero or more enemy Personalities or Followers up to his Personal Honor. Destroy each enemy target with 0 Force. Gain 2 Honor for each card this destroyed. Give each enemy target still in play -2F.

Focus Value

1

Legality

Age of Enlightenment (Lotus), Race for the Throne (Samurai)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: (C)an i use A Noble End on bowed Personalities and Followers thus destroying them since they have 0 Force(?)
  A: No.
  Bowed Personalities and Followers do not have 0 force. The force of the individual cards does not change due to bowed or unbowed status.
  The force of the unit is zero. http://rules.l5r.com/Card_features#Specific_stats: "A bowed card in a unit retains its own Force stat; its own Force is not reduced to zero from being bowed." Zen Faulkes, "A Noble End and Bowed Personality/Follower", 12 Mar 2009
• Q: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=933257#p933257
  The point of contention, I think, is that A Noble End is not looking for direct destruction of cards. It just says that you gain honour for each card that is destroyed, not each card destroyed from it's effect.
  A: Please see this for an explanation of why destroying a personality with attachments with A Noble End does not gain you 2 honor for each attachment destroyed in this manner, unless you destroy the attachments as well with a Noble End's effect (i.e. they were 0F followers and you targeted them as well). Dan Jacobson, "A Noble End + attachments", 6 Nov 2008
• Q: I know this has already been asked and answered but i was hoping the rules team would re-review it because it seems like such an obvious YES to me and there is no official card errata on the comprehensive rules website.
  Old thread: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=61960&p=793237&hilit=a+noble+end#p793237
  The rulebook says that when a card is destroyed, all cards attached to it are destroyed as well.
  pg.17 of the Samurai Edition rule book:A Personality and all his or her attached cards make up a unit. If a Personality leaves play (for example, by being destroyed), all cards in the unit leave play in the same way. When a unit is targeted, this targets its Personality, not any other cards in the unit.
  A Noble End reads: Battle: Target one of your unbowed Personalities: Target a number of Personalities or Followers opposing him up to his Personal Honor. Destroy each opposing target with 0 Force. Gain 2 Honor for each card destroyed. Give each opposing target still in play -2F.
  The first sentence of the card sets the precedent that this cards effects are not limited to personalities alone (Target a number of Personalities or Followers). The biggest thing that I point to is the location of periods. "Gain 2 Honor for each card destroyed." is its own statement on the card with nothing linking it to the previous statement.
  If it had been written,
  "Target a number of Personalities or Followers opposing him up to his Personal Honor. Destroy each opposing target with 0 Force, gain 2 Honor for each card destroyed." OR "Target a number of Personalities or Followers opposing him up to his Personal Honor. Destroy each opposing target with 0 Force gaining 2 Honor for each card destroyed this way.
  I could understand the confusion, but this seems very cut and dry to me. With the Championship weekend fast approaching I beg you rules kami to take a second look at this.
  A: Sorry, but it's not clear to me what the actual point of contention is.
  If the point is to argue that A Noble end should generate an honor gain for (say) items that are secondarily destroyed because the Personality is, no. The Glossary example exactly parallels the text of A Noble End.
  Additional: I think I see the issue. A Noble End destroys a Personality and Followers. You get honor for those, because they were directly destroyed by the card's effect. The original question asked about "attachments" generally (which would include Items, Spells). You do not get honor for destroying non-Follower attachments, because they are not destroyed directly. Zen Faulkes, "A Noble End + attachments", 6 Nov 2008
• Q: I have had a short debate with an opponent about this card and have decided that while I conceded it durring the game I want clarifacation for the next time....
  When my opponent's personality has several attachments but has 0 Force himself (for whatever reason) and I then play "A Noble End" targeting him with it's effect. The personality is destroyed, but the Attachments are as well though not directly as an effect of the card. However the exact wording of the card states; "Target one of your unbowed Personalities: Target a number of Personalities or Followers opposing him up to his Personal Honor. Destroy each opposing target with 0 Force. Gain 2 Honor for each card destroyed. Give each opposing target still in play -2F."
  The rules state that; " If a Personality leaves play (for example, by being destroyed), all cards in the unit leave play in the same way."
  So, when "A Noble End" destrotys the above personality you would gain honor for not only the personality but also for all attached cards as well as they were also destroyed at the same time.
  Correct?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_F#For_each: "Sometimes "for each" refers back to an effect that is proportional to another set of effects created by the same action or trait. In this particular wording, only the actual occurrences created by the first set of effects count toward the second, not any contingent effects triggered by other cards or rules.
  "Example: 'Destroy 1 to 3 enemy cards. Gain 1 Honor for each card destroyed.' If the destruction of one enemy card triggers the destruction of another (as when a Personality's attachments are destroyed via the rules), the additional card is not counted towards the Honor. Also note that if the destruction of one enemy card is prevented, one less Honor will be gained." Zen Faulkes, "A Noble End and Attachments...", 23 Sep 2007
• Q: A Noble End text says to target a number of personalities or followers up to the personality personal honor. Does that "or" mean that the player who uses Noble End must target personalities OR followers ot he can chose both?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Special_wording_rules#Conjunctions: "Effects that check for a condition phrased as 'X or Y' are also satisfied if both X and Y are met."
  A mix works. Zen Faulkes, "A Noble End and Fortified Camp doubts", 5 Sep 2007
• Q: "For each," which is the terminology used in A Noble End, only specifies how the honor gain from the card is structured (that is, destroying two cards produces one four-point gain rather than two separate two-point gains). The rules term "for," which is cited as the basis for this ruling, does not appear in the text of A Noble End.
  A: You can't say "For each" without saying, "For." That "for each" indicates that an effect is proportionate does not imply that it is not dependent (what "for" indicates). Zen Faulkes, "A Noble End wording issue, part 2", 17 Jul 2007
• Q: For reference: http://www.alderac.com/forumold/viewtopic.php?t=58506
  The reasoning given in the above post does not apply to the wording of A Noble End, which uses "for each" but not "for" wording.
  "Battle: Target one of your unbowed Personalities: Target a number of Personalities or Followers opposing him up to his Personal Honor. Destroy each opposing target with 0 Force. Gain 2 Honor for each card destroyed. Give each opposing target still in play -2F."
  By a strict reading of the card, I can't see a reason for the honor gain not to count followers.
  A: It can, if and only if all those followers were destroyed because their Force was zero.
  I believe the original question was, "If a Personality's force was reduced to zero and destroyed, do you also get honor for all those non-zero Force Followers that were destroyed because they were attached when the Personality was destroyed?" Zen Faulkes, "A Noble End - wording issue", 17 Jul 2007
• Q: Relevent text:
  Situation:
  I am defending with Utaku Whoever. My opponent attacks with an Otomo Taneji, who has NINE followers attached. I play A Noble End, targeting Taneji. Taneji dies, netting me 2 honor. Rejoice. Then, one of two things happens:
  1 - Since Taneji died, all his followers are destroyed, and battle ends. Yay.
  2 - Since Taneji died, all his followers are destroyed........ and by a strict reading of A Noble End's text, I net another 18 honor! Then battle ends. Yay.
  I'm fairly certain that option #1 was the intention of the card, but #2 goes by what the cards actually says. So?
  A: Comprehensive Rules Glossary, For each: "“For” wording only refers to a specifically named consequence of the effect, not to a consequence arising from a chain of contingent effects." Zen Faulkes, "A Noble End", 22 Jun 2007