Proper Deference

Legend of the Five Rings card from The Plague War

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Card Text

Political Reaction: Before a turn ends, if the active player has gained 8 or more Honor this turn, excluding gains from battle resolution: Set his Family Honor equal to its value when the turn began. Draw a card.
Battle: Target a Personality or Follower: Give it -4F.

Focus Value

1

Legality

Destroyer War (Celestial)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rulings

• Honor losses do not offset gains when triggering the Reaction. A player who has gained 10 Honor but lost 5 Honor that turn could still trigger the Reaction. [The Plague War rulesheet] Comprehensive Rules, Celestial Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, February 2012, p. 149

Rules Q&A

• Q: In Refrence to this:
  viewtopic.php?f=59&t=92408#p1224241
  Favors is a card from BtD.
  NB4MKW
  A: This is what I get for being out of the loop for the last two+ months with no computer. >.<
  Thank you, sir. Card title duely noted. Brook Cunningham, "Re: Proper Deference vs. Prayer for Guidance", 14 Jul 2011
• Q: I play 3 Favors to gain 6 honor during the action phase. I target one of my Samurai with Prayer for Guidance. I assign him then later bow him due to battle resolution, thus gaining me 3 honor. That is all the honor I gain on my turn. Can my opponent play Proper Deference's reaction to set my honor back down?
  Proper Deference Political Reaction: Before a turn ends, if the active player has gained 8 or more Honor this turn, excluding gains from battle resolution: Set his Family Honor equal to its value when the turn began. Draw a card.
  Prayer for Guidance Battle/Open: Target your honorable Samurai: After the next time this turn he is destroyed or bowed by another player's action or by battle resolution, gain 3 Honor.
  A: EDIT: Ah. Favors. Gotcha.
  You seem to be asking if Prayer for Guidance's Honor gain is "from battle resolution", but it is not. It is from the action itself, triggered by something that occurred because of a battle's resolution.
  I hope that answers you sufficiently. Brook Cunningham, "Re: Proper Deference vs. Prayer for Guidance", 14 Jul 2011
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=85090#p1122819
  The Thriving Light Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero).
  With reference to the same question/scenario. My honor at 20, gained 10, played hidden scandal, gain 4 honor from peep, opponent play proper deference, then if i were to play Thriving light to negate the loss? Because Proper deference creates -14 honor loss. So:
  a) I negate the first 5 honor loss, but doesn't trigger hidden scandal, so i still lose another 5 (due to -9 honor loss balance), making my honor 29. b) I negate the first 5 honor loss, hidden scandal considers as triggered, so i do not lose honor. making my honor 34.
  I'm more inclined to say it's scenario (a), but I'm checking with you guys to be sure.
  A: It's SORT OF your scenario "a)".
  The mild catch is that The Thriving Light isn't negation, it's a reduction. But otherwise, you're correct. Before you lose the 14 Honor, it'll reduce your -14 from Proper Deference to -9, then you'll lose 5 of that nine, which will then trigger Hidden Scandal and the remaining -4 will be negated. Brook Cunningham, "Proper Deference and Hidden Scandal", 22 Jul 2010
• Q: I gain 10 honor during my action phase, then I drop a Hidden Scandal. If my opponent drops a Proper Deference, is my loss capped at 5, so I end the turn with 5 more honor than I started?
  A: Looks correct. Zen Faulkes, "Proper Deference and Hidden Scandal", 18 Jul 2010
• Q: With reference to this topic viewtopic.php?f=59&t=84994
  Did not the Plague War rules sheet in its clarifications not say specifically that it counts the gained honor not the difference between what the turn started at and ended at?
  Thanks Az
  A: That is correct. The previous post was wrong. ("Paper? You want me to read paper?" Where's the search function?") Zen Faulkes, "Proper Deference and Honor losses", 14 Jul 2010
• Q: Proper Deference: Does the Honor gain referenced in the text refer to total Honor gained (independent of any Honor losses inflicted) or the difference between starting and ending Honor in a turn(?)
  A: Difference in Honor between start and end of turn. Zen Faulkes, "Proper Deference and Honor losses", 13 Jul 2010
• Q: The rules wiki has been updated, and now setting family honor to a value is now considered a gain or loss. I understand it is more filling a vacuum than a clarification. However, I'd like to point out this is a rules decision that clashes with precedent such as Tortoise Ambassador, where setting family honor was explicitly not an honor loss (and therefore it couldn't be copied, modified or redirected).
  A: Tortoise Ambassador has explicit text stating that the reduction of honour is not treated as an honour loss: it sets no precedent for cards without such text.
  Proper Deference has no such text. The reduction of the player's honour is an honour loss. Alex Jones, "Proper Deference and The Thriving Light", 8 Jun 2010
• Q: Setting a Personality's stats to a number involves giving it a bonus or penalty to its current value to reach the set number. Does setting Family Honor to a number similarly involve a bonus or penalty?
  A: Let's be clear about something up front:
  http://rules.l5r.com/CE_The_Player#Family_Honor: "Family Honor... follows different rules than card stats." Emphasis added. Zen Faulkes, "Proper Deference and The Thriving Light", 5 Jun 2010