Razor's Edge Dojo

Legend of the Five Rings card from Diamond Edition, Broken Blades, Promotional–Diamond

Card Type

Stronghold

Province Strength

8

Gold Production

4

Starting Family Honor

3

Clan

Crab

Keywords

Dojo

Card Text

Once per phase per player, after another player targets one of your Personalities with an action, he must discard a card.
Repeatable Battle, w: Give each of your Crab Clan Personalities at the current battlefield +1F.

Legality

Four Winds (Gold), Rain of Blood (Diamond)

Deck

Pre-Game

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, "Razor's Edge Dojo 8PS 4GP 3FH The first time each phase each other player targets one of your Personalities with an action, he must discard a card from his hand. Battle: Bow Razor's Edge Dojo to give each of your Crab Clan Personalities in the current battle +1F." [MRP, Diamond Edition, 27 October 2003] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 150
• If an action has all effects negates after an opponent has discarded, the opponent does not have to discard again if he or she targets a Personality again. [Reversal, CF, web, 6 February 2007] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 151
• An opponent must discard even if the action is canceled at the targeting stage. [JA, 6 February 2004] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 151

Rules Q&A

• Q: This of course begs the question of why was the templating changed between Razor's Edge Dojo and other such cards ("... whenever your opponent targets one of your personalities") and the various Scorpions in Web of Lies ("... whenever one of your opponent's actions targets on of your personalities") It makes things pretty confusing when people point to previous rulings that look like they should apply to the newer cards, only to find out that they don't due to incredibly subtle changes in wording.
  A: The two things are not the same at all. One keys off of which Player makes the targeting decision. The other keys off of which Player played the card that creates the targeting decision. They are distinct.
  As for why the various templates are applied where they are, that's not a Rules Question. That is a Design Question. I can't answer it for you. I'd recommend reposting that particular question with a different heading and addressing it to Jeff Alexander in private email. Martin Lund, "Rules for 14 January 2005", 19 Jan 2005
• Q: 5) Suppose I am running Razor's Edge Dojo. My opponent targets me with Gozoku Sensei and discards the favor. As Razor's Edge has an effect causing them to discard as a result of *targeting*, if I cancel the discarding of the favor do they still have to discard a card? (ie they target me, they discard a card and then proceed to paying costs which I cancel)
  A: They discard the card during the Targeting Step. They discard the Imperial Favor during the Pay Cost step. By the time the Action is canceled due to non-payment, they've already lost the card. Martin Lund, "Rules for 28 November 2004", 30 Nov 2004
• Q: Does my opponent have to discard a card to Egg one of my personalities if I am playing with Razor's Edge Dojo? To Ruby one? To Exp. Ruby one
  A: The Egg of P'an Ku is a Limited Action that targets the Personality it copies. They will have to discard for it.
  Ruby of Iuchiban has an Action that targets a Personality. They will have to discard for it.
  Ruby of Iuchiban XP. adds an additional cost to the Action of attaching the Ruby. They have to target the victim Personality with their attachment Action to pay the cost. They will have to discard for it. Martin Lund, "Rules for 26 June 2004", 29 Jun 2004
• Q: With the new reversal now putting the targeting of Ambush into the Action Phase, if I play Razor's Edge Dojo, does my opponent have to discard two cards if he ambushes my personality and shoots him with a ranged attack?
  A: Yes. Martin Lund, "Rules for 21 May 2004", 24 May 2004
• Q: I play a card that doesn't target in the "Targeting step" (before costs are paid) but its effects force me to target another player's Personality. Against a Razor's Crab Personality, have I to discard a card because of Razor's trait?
  A: When you choose the target, you'll have to discard. It doesn't particularly matter when that happens. Martin Lund, "Rules for 6 May 2004", 9 May 2004
• Q: So, is the discarding a cost or an effect in this case? If my opponent does not have any cards in his hand can he target one of my personalities if I'm playing RED?
  A: [MARTY] The discard is an effect. The "must" on R.E.D. does not make it an additional cost in any way. You can still target even if you have no cards in hand. Martin Lund, "Rules for 3 May 2004", 6 May 2004
• Q: This came up in a recent game. When a battle action is cancelled, does it count towards the Battle action requirement to play the Ring of Water? I don't *think* so, since a cancelled action is treated as if it was never played (precedent: ruling on Razor's Edge Dojo), but I just wanted to make sure.
  A: That precedent stands. Canceled Actions won't be taken into consideration after they are Canceled for the Ring of Water, Razor's Edge Dojo, or anything else that literally counts the number of actions taken. Martin Lund, "Rules for 26 April 2004", 29 Apr 2004
• Q: Is the force bonus that comes from bowing Razor's Edge Dojo increased by one for Kaiu Hisayuki? It seems to me that it would, but I have heard before that your stronghold isn't technically considered a "card"
  A: Strongholds are not cards. They can't ever be part of decks or affected by effects that address cards.
  This is partly to keep Strongholds untouchable by otherwise universal effects that could apply to all cards.
  This is also partly a legacy of the time when strongholds were not printed on card stock, but rather the back of smaller deck-boxes with only one stronghold each. Martin Lund, "Rules for 24 April 2004", 27 Apr 2004
• Q: 3. Im playing Crab with Razors Edge Dojo and my opponent brings in a Shukmei..and puts a -1/-1 on one of my guys..does he have to discard a card to the dojo? I think the token is a cost of bringing in Shukmei..not a targeted action..but I could be wrong..thus why I'm asking.
  A: The token placement is not a cost, but an effect. However, it is not an effect generated by an Action. There is no Limited, Open, Battle, or Limited attached to it. It is a trait with a triggered effect. It - is - targeted, but it is not an Action, so you need not discard. Martin Lund, "Rules for 3 April 2004", 4 Apr 2004
• Q: If I am targeted with a Limited action that is canceled, I understand my opponent must discard an extra card as a cost of targeting with that action.
  A: Not quite. The discard is an effect, not a cost. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 17 December 2003, Part 2", 18 Dec 2003
• Q: Does Shosuru Maru's ability target a personality for the purposes of effects such as Razor's Edge Dojo?
  A: No. Your opponent targets you, not your cards (you do that). Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 17 December 2003", 17 Dec 2003
• Q: If I play with Razor's Edge Dojo and the opponent target a personality in one of my provinces, does he have to discard a card?
  A: No (precedent: Yodin Sensei). Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 14 December 2003, Part 2", 15 Dec 2003
• Q: Is a person required to discard a card (if I am using Razor's Edge Dojo) to target your personality with an action?
  A: If he can legally do so, yes. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for Dr. Who's 40th Anniversary (23 November 2003)", 23 Nov 2003
• Q: Does this [Razor's Edge Dojo] work the same with Hunting Tiger?
  A: Again, repeating Jeff's answer: Currently, the two are both worded as costs, and work the same. This won't be true in Diamond, because Razor's Edge Dojo is changing. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 19 August 2003, Part 2", 20 Aug 2003
• Q: I am playing DE Razor's Edge Dojo and my opponent has [Ambush] in hand. If they want to Ambush one of my personalities, must they discard the card first for RED's trait (thus preventing them from ambushing me)?
  A: Sorry, I'm not answering any questions regarding Diamond. Currently, the discard is a cost and must be done first. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 15 August 2003", 16 Aug 2003
• Q: 2. If I use the force bonus from Razor's Edge Dojo on an army including Kaiu Hisayuki, soul of Silence, does he just increase the force bonus on himself or does the stronghold now give everyone +2 force?
  Just himself.
  A stronghold is not a card, so Silence does not increase the boost...
  A: Good catch. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for August 13th, 2003", 13 Aug 2003
• Q: 2. If I use the force bonus from Razor's Edge Dojo on an army including Kaiu Hisayuki, soul of Silence, does he just increase the force bonus on himself or does the stronghold now give everyone +2 force?
  A: Just himself. Vaughn Derderian, "Rules for August 8th, 2003", 8 Aug 2003
• Q: More imporantly, this answer has nothing to do with whether you're in the Action or the Attack Phase. Razor's Edge Dojo requires you to discard if you target his Crab Clan people "while they are not in an army." No one is in an army when the attack is first declared.
  Shouldn't that be "Yes, you do have to discard"? Since no personalities are in armies when OiC is played, and OiC targets a personality, won't OiC therefore be targetting a personality not in an army and trigger Razor's Edge Dojo to force the discard?
  A: Um....yes. I somehow managed to read Razor's Edge Dojo backward. You do have to discard to target them when an attack is declared. Jeff Alexander, "post for 20 January 2003", 21 Jan 2003
• Q: Specifically, if my opponent is using Razor's Edge Dojo, would I have to discard a card to target his personality with OiC? I think I don't have to, but just wanted to make sure.
  A: No.
  More imporantly, this answer has nothing to do with whether you're in the Action or the Attack Phase. Razor's Edge Dojo requires you to discard if you target his Crab Clan people "while they are not in an army." No one is in an army when the attack is first declared. Jeff Alexander, "post for 17 January 2003", 18 Jan 2003
• Q: Razor's Edge Dojo: this trait is trigger everytime i do something to my opponent card? or only when i use an action card then the trait reaction??
  A: Action = Limited, Open, Battle, Reaction on any card. Zen Faulkes, "more questions", 27 Mar 2005
• Q: The Text The first time each phase each other player targets one of your Personalities with an action, he must discard a card from his hand. Battle: Bow Razor's Edge Dojo to give each of your Crab Clan Personalities in the current battle +1F.
  Is this talking about Action and Attack Phases per turn or if you use such as Desperate Wager which makes a second Attack phase would you need to discard another during this attack?
  A: Yes, they need to discard. Amush, too. Zen Faulkes, "Razpr's Edge Dojo", 3 Mar 2005
• Q: Here is another (OBH) rule question. Well, it is more like a confirmation for the Follower Haunted vs a personality who has a move ability like Shinjo Shono XP2 https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=3001 https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=6939
  Shinjo Shono has the follower. First, He tries to assign but the follower discard a card with a too high focus, so Shono cannot assign this turn, OK. Later in a battle action segment: Shinjo Shono performs his own moving battle action: "Battle: Even if Shono has been in an attacking army during battle resolution this phase: Move him to the current battlefield."
  Should the follower discard 1 o 2 cards? I would say 2 because one is because of performing the action and the other because of the move effect. Am I right ?
  Thanks in advance Here my last (OBH) rule question..... for today.
  It is about Razor's Edge Dojo. https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=6191
  First Case: I am playing against that stronghold and I have only 1 card in hand. I want to play that card which will target any of my opponent's personalities. The Razor's Edge Dojo makes me discard a card but I have no more in my hand. As I cannot discard, does it cancel my action?
  Second Case: I have no card in hand Can I use an action from one of my cards in play which will target any of my opponent's personalities? As I cannot discard, does it cancel my action?
  Thanks in advance!
  A: (Replying to a player: "Thanks Kempy, my doubt is a timing question. Isn't it the same timing that determine the "move" and "performing" that kind of actions? If yes, can the card trigger twice at the same time?") It's not quite the same timing. Before the effects resolve at all is before, and a separate trigger from, before the card moves, even if movement is the only effect of the action.
  In both cases, you can't announce those actions at all, knowing that you cannot fulfill the added condition of Razor's Edge Dojo. Brook Cunningham, "Sun and Moon #rules-questions", 5 Jun 2026