Ring of Water

Legend of the Five Rings card from Emperor Edition, Pre-Imperial Edition, Imperial Edition, Emerald Edition, Battle of Beiden Pass, Obsidian Edition, Celestial Edition, Battle of Kyuden Tonbo, Jade Edition, Diamond Edition, Gold Edition, Lotus Edition, Pearl Edition, Samurai Edition, Promotional–Samurai, Training Grounds, Training Grounds 2, War of Honor, Promotional–Diamond, Ivory Edition, Emperor Edition Demo Decks, Promotional–Emperor, Twenty Festivals, Onyx Edition, Shattered Empire, Crimson and Jade, Three Dynasties, Fire & Shadow, The Fall of Otosan Uchi, Drums of War, Glory of the Empire, The Harbinger, Promotional–Ivory, Promotional–Twenty Festivals

Card Type

Ring

Keywords

Unique, Water

Card Text

Play after a battle resolves in which you played a Terrain, destroyed a Terrain, and destroyed any cards or provinces during resolution. You may discard this Ring from your hand to use its ability without cost.
Water Absent Repeatable Battle, w: Move your target Personality home or, if he would be opposed, move your target Personality at any location to the current battlefield.

Focus Value

4

Legality

A Brother's Destiny (Ivory Edition), A Brother's Destiny (Twenty Festivals), Age of Conquest (Emperor), Age of Enlightenment (Lotus), Clan Wars (Imperial), Destroyer War (Celestial), Four Winds (Gold), Hidden Emperor (Jade), Race for the Throne (Samurai), Rain of Blood (Diamond), Shattered Empire, Three Dynasties, War of the Seals (Onyx Edition)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, "Ring of Water 0G 4FV You may play this card as a Reaction after resolving your fourth Battle action during one battle from cards with different titles. Elemental Open: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: Target a unit you control and either your home or a battlefield at which it would be opposed. Move the unit to the location. If it moved, straighten it." [MRP, Khan's Defiance, 22 January 2007] Rules Archive, August 18, 2007, p. 61
• Units which assign after cavalry deployment (ex: Shinjo House Guard, Dark Oracle of Water) will still assign after your cavalry. [DW, l5rinfo] Accumulated Rulings, February 8, 2000, p. 50
• Clarified: you may destroy a terrain and later play a terrain to satisfy the requirements -- these need not both be done in one action. Text Change & Errata List, February 15, 2000, p. 10
• Clarified: may not be played if you were an ally. Text Change & Errata List, February 15, 2000, p. 10
• Erratum: Changed: Benefit is now a Reaction (and hence an "ability"). Text Change & Errata List, February 15, 2000, p. 10
• Accumulated Rulings Accumulated Rulings, April 22, 1998, p. 29
• Erratum: Reads, "Ring of Water 4FV Water • Unique After you resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle: You may put this card into play from your hand. Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: Move your target unit home or to a battlefield with one or more enemy units. If the unit moved, straighten it." [MRP, The Harbinger, 19 January 2010] Comprehensive Rules, Celestial Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, February 2012, p. 151
• Battle actions on cards with no title (e.g., created cards) do not count for the Ring of Water, because they do not have “different” titles from the other cards. [Extension from keyword rules; ZF, 31 January 2011] Comprehensive Rules, Celestial Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, February 2012, p. 151
• Erratum: Reads, "Ring of Water 4FV Water After you successfully resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle: You may put this card into play from your hand. Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: Move one of your target units home or to a battlefield with one or more enemy units. If the unit moved, straighten it." [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007] Comprehensive Rules, Samurai Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, May 2009, p. 152

Rules Q&A

• Q: Will a Kuro's Fire attached to a 4-C Shugenja suffice as condition for playing the Ring of Water if you make the 4 Ranged attacks with it?
  Similarly, do Wanton Destruction's duels count as two actions to the Ring of Water's condition?
  A: No. A "Duel" or "Ranged Attack" does not an Action make. These are examples of individual Actions that produce multiple effects, not multiple Actions. Martin Lund, "Rules for 20 January 2005", 24 Jan 2005
• Q: If I use Paneki to play a card from my opponent's hand other than an action card (such as a Ring of Water or a follower that can attach during battle), is the card discarded? I ask because Paneki says "It discards to its owner's discard pile", but what happens if the card isn't discarded at all?
  Does he force it to be discarded, or can it remain in play?
  A: It doesn't force the discard, only tells you which pile that card must go to when it would normally go to the discard pile. Without that clause, cards played from another player's hand would go to Paneki's controller's Discard Pile, rather than the that of the card's owner. Martin Lund, "Rules for 18 January 2005", 21 Jan 2005
• Q: ...anyway, here it is:
  Actions are considered successfully cast or successfully performed after both players have passed on reactions after Announcement, Targeting and Paying Costs.
  That means that I play the Ring of Water after Announcements, Targeting and Paying Costs of my fourth battle action in a battle, but before the action resolves.
  Is this correct?
  A: [MARTY] Yes, though you have to wait for the appropriate Reactions to be played out for each step as well. Only after all players elect to pass on their opportunity to React in the Cost Payment step is that step completed so that the Action is "taken." Martin Lund, "Rules for 29 June 2004", 2 Jul 2004
• Q: 0) I take three battle actions in one battle 1) Isawa's Last Wish is my fourth Battle action in this battle and I'm holding the Ring of Water. 2) I announce that I'm going to use Isawa's Last Wish to blow up Moto Bob. 3) I choose targets (Moto Bob) 4) I wait for reactions. 5) I pay costs (none). 6) I wait for reactions. My opponent does not react.
  A: [MARTY] Neither do you. Now the Action is considered "taken" and you can play Reactions to that fact, but never again to Cost Payment. That's a hard break in Reaction timing to keep the proverbial Chocolate out of the metaphorical Peanut Butter. Martin Lund, "Rules for 29 June 2004", 2 Jul 2004
• Q: 7) I now play the Ring of Water since I just successfully played my fourth battle action (although its effects have not taken place). 8) Effects resolve. Moto Bob dies in a firey bath of arcane, um... fire.
  A: [MARTY] Here I get this picture of them just crushed to death under a pile of rabbits. Go figure. Martin Lund, "Rules for 29 June 2004", 2 Jul 2004
• Q: Isawa's Last Wish has now *NOT* been used and the action was never taken. The Ring of Water is already in play and Moto Bob is already dead, so those effects are not reversed.
  I have now taken only three battle actions (not four), but I managed to play the Ring of Water in spite of the fact that I have taken only three battle actions this turn.
  Is this correct? If so, that bothers me.
  A: [MARTY] That is correct. Yeah, it bothers me a bit too. I believe it is a hold-over from the Jade Era when they were first drawing concrete distinctions between Negating and Cancellation. Cancellation wasn't allowed to "use up" once-per-turn abilities.
  The fallout is that you get situations where you can play something triggered on the Nth time something happens, and then erase that Nth time from history with Cancellation.
  I understand and respect your concern there. Perhaps Jeff and company may have something up there sleaves regarding this issue when it comes to establishing the Lotus format. Martin Lund, "Rules for 29 June 2004", 2 Jul 2004
• Q: I have already cast 2 spells or kihos this turn. My 4th battle action in a battle is a spell or kiho. I play the Ring of Water, can I now introspect for the Ring of Air and play it.
  A: Sure, you drop the Ring of Water in response to playing the Action.
  You play Introspection in response to the Ring of Water.
  If no one has any other responses to Ring of Water, then go back to playing responses to your Kiho.
  Play Ring of Air. Martin Lund, "Rules for 25 June 2004", 28 Jun 2004
• Q: An Action is considered "Taken" (and an Action Card considered "Played") once it gets through the "Pay Costs" step (and Reactions to those payments) without getting Canceled. Responses triggered on when someone "Takes" an Action, "Plays" an Action Card, or "Casts" a Spell / Kiho are played then, before the first Effect of the Action resolves.
  Example: Ring of Water: Play Ring of Water *after taking* four or more Battle actions in one battle.
  A: And Ring of Air too: *after casting* Martin Lund, "Rules for 25 June 2004", 28 Jun 2004
• Q: Now, I follow with some different situations to know in which of them I can play the Ring of Water:
  A) My opponent cancels the action with the Kyuden Ikoma’s reaction B) The Battle action is canceled, but after some effects has been resolved C) The action is succesfully resolved
  I ask because I don’t know what “after taking an action” means, regarding terms of play. Maybe it means “after costs are paid but before effects resolves”, or could be “when an action succesfully resolves.”
  A: "An action is successfully performed after all costs are paid and giving other players the opportunity to perform Reactions to it. [JA, 26 April 2002]" (Accumulated Rulings, "Actions and Abilities")
  As for the above scenarios:
  "A" will never count for Ring of Water.
  "B" is too late to play Ring of Water (you needed to do it before the effects resolved), and once it gets canceled, it doesn't count towards the 4 you need to play Ring of Water after a subsequent action (even though it made some effects).
  "C" counts towards your 4 required Actions, but it is too late to play Ring of Water in response to that action (again, effects have already resolved). Martin Lund, "Rules for 24 May 2004", 27 May 2004
• Q: Also, does playing any formation count as a battle action for the Ring of Water? That immediate action you get after playing the formation, does that also count for the Ring of Water?
  A: Formations are played as Battle Actions, as per the Hidden City Rules Sheet. Playing one will count as playing / taking a Battle Action.
  As for the extra opportunity to take an Open or Battle Action, if you use that chance to play a Battle Action, then you've played a Battle Action. It'll count for Ring of Water. Nothing special. Martin Lund, "Rules for 12 May 2004", 15 May 2004
• Q: Can I use his battle action to give people 0 force bonusses when I have no followers in my discard pile? If you need a reason why: Ring of Water, not passing, Heart of a Hero.
  A: [MARTY] On the one hand, you have the definition of a targeted action, which would definitely mean that Ikm targets the Follower in the discard pile.
  On the other hand, you have page 73 in the Diamond Edition Rulebook that says you may not target cards that are not in play.
  However, looking at Feign Death and Kisada's Shrine and how Zen and Jeff have ruled in relation to them and Wedge, I think it is safe to say that Page 73 only forbids targeting cards that are not in play up until the point at which the card specifically tells you to choose cards that are not in play.
  At that point, the First Cardinal Rule wins.
  Based on this the rule on Page 73 is actually there to prevent you from targeting things which are not "in play" unless the Action or Effect in question explicitly contradicts that rule. For example, you can't play "Careful Planning" on a Personality in your Discard Pile.
  This does not override the general definition of Targeted Actions on page 72. If an effect that would be targeted forces you to choose something in that is not in play, you can target something that is not in play. The card breaks the rule.
  Sometimes you must choose between more than one Ratling Follower in your discard pile for the one to remove from the game. Because of this, the Action targets not only your Ratling Personality receiving a bonus, but also the Follower you will remove from the game.
  If you don't have a Follower in your Discard Pile to target, then it is illegal to play Imk'atch-tek's Action because you lack one of its targets. Martin Lund, "Rules for 10 May 2004", 13 May 2004
• Q: This came up in a recent game. When a battle action is cancelled, does it count towards the Battle action requirement to play the Ring of Water? I don't *think* so, since a cancelled action is treated as if it was never played (precedent: ruling on Razor's Edge Dojo), but I just wanted to make sure.
  A: That precedent stands. Canceled Actions won't be taken into consideration after they are Canceled for the Ring of Water, Razor's Edge Dojo, or anything else that literally counts the number of actions taken. Martin Lund, "Rules for 26 April 2004", 29 Apr 2004
• Q: I was at a tournament, and was told that Jeff made a ruling that playing superior strategist, and the card that you fetch with superior strategist is counted as one battle action for the Ring of Water.
  A: Um ... I don't see how one could reach that conclusion. Superior Strategist says, "Tactical Battle: Search your Fate deck for an Action card with a Battle or Open action. If you find a card, gain an additional action after this one and play that card for a Battle or Open action."
  How is that not 2 Battle Actions? Superior Strategist IS a Battle Action, and they it gives you an additional Action to play another Battle or Open Action. Assuming the Action you get is a Battle Action, rather than an Open Action, you're half-way to Ring of Water.
  Heck, if you had 3 Tacticians, with 1 Sup-Strat in hand and 2 in your deck, you could chain Sup-Strat, Sup-Strat, Sup-Strat, Random Battle Action, Ring of Water just like that. Martin Lund, "Rules for 21 April 2004", 23 Apr 2004
• Q: Also (I believe I had asked this but my question wasn't very clearly formulated so here goes again...) does each unit moved due to SC's ability count towards the 4 battle actions needed for the Ring of Water?
  A: Each successful use of the Ability given by Strategic Crossroads counts as you taking a Battle action in a battle, which is what Ring of Water looks for. Martin Lund, "Rules for 12 April 2004", 13 Apr 2004
• Q: Do open actions and reactions taken during battle qualify as battle actions for the purposes of the Ring of Water?
  A: They don't qualify as Battle actions for any purposes. Only Battle actions do. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 19 March 2004", 20 Mar 2004
• Q: "Quick snap" (hopefully) questions:
  1 - does Strategic Crossroad work with Ring of Water or not? Intuitively it should but...
  A: I do not know exactly what you mean by "work with", so I'm guessing here...
  Using the Battle action on Strategic Crossroad counts towards the four Battle actions needed to play the Ring of Water. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 12 March 2004", 13 Mar 2004
• Q: 2) If I'm in battle and I just took my 4th battle action (which also happens to be my 3rd kiho action) can I play Ring of Water from my hand, Introspection off of it to get Ring of Air, and then play Ring of Air? or vice versa?
  Yes and yes.--(jeff)
  Ring of air:play after casting three or more spells/or kiho in one turn.
  So if you have played 3 kiho in one turn, you may choose to play the ring of air whenever you want, even during battle resolution, even(I think) during the end phase and so on.
  Not true. You must still play it immediately following its play condition.--(jeff)
  Isn't that a contradiction? Shouldn't you then have to be required to play the Ring of Air/Water before taking a reaction (Introspection). Otherwise what would be the difference in taking 1 action to get the Ring of Whatever and however many actions in between enter play and playing the ring?
  A: It is always possible to play more Reactions to the same original trigger until one of two things happen: A) All players elect in a row not to react anymore, or B) The trigger itself gets removed or mutated into something that can no longer be responded to.
  A Reaction puts the game "on hold" right where it was until the Reaction finishes. That includes preserving whatever triggers are still "live" and legitimate to respond to. This is not the case when you are talking about delaying an arbitrary length of time to a later phase that same turn.
  The thing is, Reactions can occur even during other Reactions. [DE p. 75] So you can have several layers "on hold" that become live again once these lower stages of Reaction are done.
  So the two Ring example goes something like this:
  Player 1's response to the fourth action: play Ring of Water Player 2's response to the Ring of Water: none Player 1's response to the Ring of Water: play Introspection Player 2's response to Introspection: none Player 1's response to Introspection: none. End. Player 2's response to the Ring of Water: none Player 1's response to the Ring of Water: none. End. Player 2's response to the fourth action: none Player 1's response to the fourth action: play Ring of Air Player 2's response to the Ring of air: none Player 1's response to the Ring of air: none. End. Player 1's response to the fourth action: none Player 2's response to the fourth action: none. End. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 24 Feb. 2004", 26 Feb 2004
• Q: 2) If I'm in battle and I just took my 4th battle action (which also happens to be my 3rd kiho action) can I play Ring of Water from my hand, Introspection off of it to get Ring of Air, and then play Ring of Air? or vice versa?
  A: Yes and yes. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 23 Feb. 2004", 24 Feb 2004
• Q: Another random question for you, if I play Control the Field to destroy a terrain & play a new terrain does the new terrain count as a separate battle action for Ring of Water or is playing the new terrain considered to be part of Control the Field?
  A: It's a part of Control the Field. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 17 Feb. 2004", 19 Feb 2004
• Q: Here are some of the things I've done in the past to get out the Ring of Water which have caused my opponent to stare at me like I was an idiot who had lots his mind.
  I attack with three personalities. My opponent defends with no one, and then stares at me as I play Come one at a Time. My opponent goes, "But, you're the attacker! You can't play that." "Yes, yes I can." My opponent then stares at me when I proceed to send all three people home, leaving his province undestroyed.
  A: Playing the Terrain was, in fact, legal, but sending people home was not.
  "WHILE THERE IS ONLY ONE DEFENDING PERSONALITY, that Personality may, as a Battle action, issue an unrefusable challenge to an opposing Personality, and each player may, as a Battle action, send one of his or her bowed or unbowed attacking units home bowed." [card text]
  Both Battle actions are only usable while the defending army holds exactly one unit. He had zero. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 10 Feb. 2004", 11 Feb 2004
• Q: Two quick questions here that came up during games today..
  1. Do the ranged attacks produced by Kuro's fire count as separate battle actions.
  A: No. There is one action: casting it. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 9 Feb. 2004", 10 Feb 2004
• Q: Strategic Crossroads is played in an Ambush to get the Battle actions for Ring of Water (trying to move in another personality 3 times, which fails because Ambush doesn't allow the movement). The ruling for Tireless Assault say: Ambush: Because other units may not move into the battle, any action that would try to move in another unit (e.g., Tireless Assault) are not legal because they will not satisfy the Rule of Relevance. [JA, 11 August 2003] Now, as a terrain, Strategic Crossroads is a card at the battle, which satisfies Relevance - is it legal or not?
  A: No.
  There is no action on Strategic Crossroads. There is a trait that describes an action players can use, but that is not an action on the Terrain. Jeff Alexander, "rules for 6 Feb. 2004", 7 Feb 2004
• Q: If someone has the Ring of Water in play and they attach the Gunsen of Water to a personality, is that personality gaining *one* bonus of +3/+3?
  A: Yes (card text). Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 25 November 2003, Part 2", 26 Nov 2003
• Q: When meeting the requirements of the Ring of Water, do Open actions taken during a battle count as a Battle action?
  A: No (card text). Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 31 October 2003", 31 Oct 2003
• Q: Ring of Water-'Play Ring of Water after taking four or more Battle Actions in one battle.' Now, since (as noted above) this is not a reaction...can it be done any time on the same turn after the battle[?]
  A: No. See Rules Archive, Timing. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 12 October 2003, Part 2", 13 Oct 2003
• Q: If an army with a drum of water ties an opposing army, and both armies are destroyed by the resolution of the battle, can drum of water's reaction be used to play the Ring of Water[?]
  A: According to the Archive, yes (http://www.legendofthefiverings.com/rulings/#Battle). But...
  That is an *old* ruling: it predates the appearance of the Drum of Water in Anvil of Despair by almost a year. I think that ruling was made with Famous Poet and Ring of Water in mind, not cards "in battle" like the Drum of Water. It's a long standing ruling that all cards in a battle are destroyed at the same time, which argues against that.
  I'll bring it up with the rest of the Rules Junta when they get back. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 28 June 2003", 28 Jun 2003
• Q: I heard a rumor that the following combo is not legal: Deadly Ground -> Drum of Water -> Ring of Water [...] because of uncertainty on whether or not one can take the reaction on Drum of Water after Deadly Ground has been played.
  A: Drum fo Water is played "when an army... destroys an opposing army." That's present tense, which means it's played during battle resolution, which means Deadly Ground can't be played, which means you may not use the Drum of Water. Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 17 April 2003, Part 1", 17 Apr 2003
• Q: 3) This particular question does not reflect my opinion, but has been raised periodically in my play group when someone attempts to play the Ring of Water after destroying the target of an Ambush.
  Ambush reads "Limited: One of your units begins an attack against another player's unit. No other units can be assigned or move to the battle, and the battle cannot destroy a Province. The units cannot move to other Provinces from the battle. This does not replace your Attack Phase. After the battle, lose 5 Honor."
  The objection that has been raised is that units at an Ambush are not part of an army, and hence neither an army nor a province is destroyed, meaning the Ring of Water cannot be played.
  A: I'm going to have to put on my Designer Hat here: the units in an Ambush are in armies. Jeff Alexander, "post for 8 January 2002", 9 Jan 2003
• Q: Ring of Water: How does it interact with the following two cards: Armor of Osano-Wo: since the Ring says "_after_ a battle in which you... destroyed an opposing army or province..." and the armor says "Instead of destroying the Province that this Personality is attacking, you may put the Ring of Earth into play.", I assume you cannot play both Rings after the same battle.
  A: You could. You could respond to the Province destruction with Armor of Osano-Wo, and to the army's destruction with the Ring of Water (that the Ring of Water can be triggered when you smack an army is a fact you quoted yourself!). Zen Faulkes, "Rules for 29 November 2002", 30 Nov 2002
• Q: Drum of Water Reads, "Drum of Water 6G 3FV Reaction: When an army containing this Personality destroys an opposing army after you have played a Terrain for the battle, play the Ring of Water from your hand. Elemental Battle: Destroy the Drum of Water to move this Personality to another of the Defender's Provinces." [MRP, Gold Edition, 1 July 2001]
  Question: For the second Battle action, in order to move the personality does that personality have to be at a Battle?
  A: Yes. He cannot move to "ANOTHER of the Defender's Provinces" if he is not at one of them already. Jeff Alexander, "post for 18 November 2002", 19 Nov 2002
• Q: 1- Sorry, my question about was Trenches and the Ring of Water ( in other term, do I still count as having destroyed the army to play the Ring of Water )
  A: No. Jeff Alexander, "post for 4 February 2002", 5 Feb 2002
• Q: I have a question for the rulez guy here
  I already know that you can use the Yu Trait, even if you destroyed Trenches instead of your army, but does that work as a trigger for The Ring of Water?
  A: No. [AOF rulebook p. 58] The only time you "destroy an army" is when you win or tie with an opposing army during Battle Resolution. Yu does not destroy armies, it destroys cards. Jeff Alexander, "post for 1 February 2002", 2 Feb 2002
• Q: Looking for an official ruling here:
  Is it permissible to use the reaction of the Drum of Water in a battle that results in a tie or is the Drum destroyed before it has a chance to react?
  A: This appears to fall under the "active player decides" timing conflict resolution rule. Jeff Alexander, "post for 4 October 2001", 4 Oct 2001
• Q: If the province is destroyed, can I play the Ring of Water (assuming I've met the other conditions)? The rulebook says that armies are only "destroyed" during resolution. By extension, you'd assume the same thing about provinces but the card specifically destroys the province when it resolves. (Of course, it also explicitly destroys the army so this is probably a moot question.)
  A: Moot question. The Province must be destroyed by battle resolution. Jeff Alexander, "Rulings for 9 February 2001", 15 Feb 2001
• Q: 4. Shurin Storms This destroys the army too soon to fulfill the conditions for the Ring of Water, correct?
  A: Correct. The Ring of Water requires that the army be destroyed during resolution. Jeff Alexander, "Rulings for 7 February 2001", 9 Feb 2001
• Q: if a card says your on it, it is referring only to the person who played the card correct? Including terrains like Walking with the Water?
  Water Absent Battle: Destroy a Terrain (if able). Put this Terrain into play. If he would be opposed, move your target Personality at any location to this battlefield. You may straighten the Ring of Water.
  A: Yes.
  See Perspective. Alex Jones, "Wording clarification", 22 Jun 2015
• Q: It's not really question. Rather rules/design note.
  Since introduction of Interrupts they have to fulfil RoL. Which, with combination with Forifications mechanics, literally means that Labor Crew can only prevent movement from current battlefield (at province with LC attached) to another battlefield, as you can only target cards at current battlefield unless specified different. Labor Crew text cannot, according to my knowledge of current rules and ruling history, qualified as such specification. Especially that it is technically possible to use it against "movement to other attackign army from current battlefield" (e.g. with Ring of Water), so it does not suggest in it's wording that targeted Personality has to (or even can) be home or elsewhere.
  Except, of course, commons sense and estimation of card "powerlevel" - it's hard to believe that designers intended this fortification to be only tool of preventing attackers escape to another battlefield I suspect that phrase "at/from any location" should be inserted to make this Holding work as intended (of course I do not know real intentions behind this card, but as a L5R player I can suspect it).
  A: Errata has been issued to Labor Crew. Alex Jones, "Labor Crew vs Rule of Location", 19 May 2015
• Q: Does effect of Ring of Fire's ability (card dectruction) satisfy Ring of Water's requiremend of destroying cards during resolution?
  Quotes (only relevant text, as per Oracle)
  Ring of Fire Battle: Target an enemy card without attachments. After this battle resolves, if you lost the battle, destroy the target.
  Ring of Water Play after a battle resolves in which you played a Terrain, destroyed a Terrain, and destroyed any cards or provinces during resolution.
  A: No, it does not. "After this battle resolves" is not "during resolution". Jon Palmer, "Ring of Fire & Ring of Water", 1 May 2015
• Q: According to the the Search action, a player must always reveal a card he searched for if it the search effect requires a specific card type, to verify that he has retrieved the appropriate card or type. The holding Hidden Weapon does not utilize the word "Search", but it requires a specific card type, so is the player required to show the card to his opponent? If not, how does the opponent know it is actually a weapon? During a tournament, can a judge be called to verify the cards under the holding?
  Thanks,
  Relevant text: Search: "If an effect searches for a specific card (such as "Ring of Water") or card-type (such as "a Ring"), the player must show it if he chooses to retrieve it, to verify that he has retrieved the appropriate card or type..."
  Hidden Weapons: "Limited: Put a Weapon in your hand under this Holding (face-down)."
  A: You are not required to show the card you put under Hidden Weapons.
  That said, if you are caught placing non-Weapons under the card during the course of the game, you could be subject to the penalties of rules infractions as indicated by the Code of Bushido tournament document if you are called on it by a judge or your opponent. Ben Higgins, "Hidden Weapons and "Search"", 17 Apr 2014
• Q: Say I played a Terrain and destroyed a Terrain and I activate Ring of Fire in a battle. Resolution segment begins and I lose the battle triggering the destruction of a card because of Ring of Fire. Would I then be able to play Ring of Water?
  As far as I can tell Ring of Water only cares about if a card was during Resolution Segment which I think is a different timing than "after a battle resolves".
  A: Ring of Fire does not destroy a card "during resolution", so no, it will not allow you to play Ring of Water in the manner described. Jon Palmer, "Ring of Water & Ring of Fire", 2 Apr 2014
• Q: Do battle actions from created cards without title (e.g. Katana of Fire xp.) count for the Ring of Water?
  A: No.
  A card without a title does not have a different title to other cards. Alex Jones, "Ring of water + cards without title", 19 May 2013
• Q: Otomo Sensei Reaction: Any number of times per turn, after a player chooses a card for which he searched his deck or discard pile, remove a card in your hand from the game: Remove the searched-for card from the game.
  From the rules on Searching: If an effect searches for a specific card (such as "Ring of Water") or card-type (such as "a Ring"), the player must show it if he chooses to retrieve it, to verify that he has retrieved the appropriate card or type, even if the search effect does not specify it is shown.
  I'm not entirely sure where the showing occurs in the timing sequence, so I figure I'll just ask. Assuming you're searching for something that would require showing for verification, is that card shown before the decision about whether to Otomoize it is made? (Tentatively, my thought is yes; I think that both the reaction and the showing have the same timing window, but traits precede reactions.)
  A: Yes. Showing is part of the Search effect, so it will happen before Otomo's reaction trigger. Jon Palmer, "Otomo Sensei timing", 2 Apr 2013
• Q: If I play Unstoppable Strike and give my personalty Hida Bakari the ability and then use it, does that count as two(US and Bakari) battle actions for Ring of Water? Or do the battle actions come from Unstoppable Strike so it still only counts for one action?
  A: Playing Unstoppable Strike and using the granted ability counts as two Battle actions for the Ring of Water, since the second action is from Hida Bakari: Costs and effects of traits and abilities given to other cards, copied from other cards, or on created cards, come from the card they are currently on. Alex Jones, "Unstoppable Strike and Ring of Water", 7 Oct 2012
• Q: So let's say I have done 2 actions from cards with different titles in a battle already and I then discard The Ring of Water (tRoW) to move someone into the opposed battle making that 3 actions. On my next action I play String of Victories to put tRoW back into my hand. Is that the fourth action so I can put tRoW into play? And can I then use the ability once again?
  I am pretty sure the answer is yes (I know it is on the second question), but my brain starts to hurt when I consider the tracking rule. The game "forgets" that tRoW has used it's ability but somehow the forgotten use of said ability counts as an action from cards with different titles? It's just weird to me.
  A: They're tracking different things.
  Ring of Water's trait checks abstract game state: "A battle action was taken by this player using an ability on a card called XXX." This doesn't care what happens to the card after the action was taken - it can be removed from the game, shuffled back in, have its title changed (theoretically!), lose the ability, etc.
  However, the game state of each card is also tracked, for maximum abilities uses per turn, etc: "This ability on this card has been used once this turn." When the card goes face down and out of play, this tracking stops - so when the card reappears, game state considers it to be a different card (and yes, we have considered having a different tracking rule for uniques, but decided that was even more complicated). Alex Jones, "Ring of Water & String of Victories and the Tracking rule", 2 Oct 2012
• Q: The question is: If he uses an action that moves one of his units to Province B (Ring of Water, Help from the Shadows, whatever), will the movement be negated?
  A: In the scenario described, yes; the movement would be negated. Brook Cunningham, "Movement and Kyuden Kitsune Exp.", 5 Aug 2012
• Q: I have out:
  Tamori Kusugi (Personality) with the ability: "Battle: Even if Kusugi is not at the current battlefield, bow him: Raise or lower the current battlefield's province's strength by 4."
  and
  Chikushudo's Trickery 0GC Earth • Forest Open: Choose one or two of your performing unbowed Nonhuman Spirit Personalities, target another player's unbowed Personality, bow this Shugenja, and destroy this card: Create a battlefield. Negate all movement to it. Assign the target to attack there; he will not be destroyed during the battle's Combat Segment. Assign the performing Spirits to defend there. Fight a battle there.
  If I have personalities at the Battlefield created by Chikushudo's Trickery, can I use Tamori Kusugi's ability (For instance, to get another Battle Action for Ring of Water), or does the lack of a province make his ability use illegal?
  A: It's legal.
  Kusugi's ability does not target the province, or otherwise refer to the province in the constraints block: the only thing that would stop you using his ability would be if you had no units at the current battlefield. Alex Jones, "Effects that refer to provinces in battles without one", 4 Jul 2012
• Q: Shiba Tsukimi:
  Does that mean that that she can use that reaction in every battle she is in? So she could use it in one battle twice, see a resolution (say as a defender) then move to another battle (say with Ring of Water), then at the new battle field use the reaction twice again?
  Thanks,
  Justin
  A: Twice per battle is exactly that!
  Assuming your opponent took enough Battle actions at each province and she didn't see a Resolution Segment as an attacker, then you could use her Reaction up to 8 times a turn (possibly more if Two Fronts had been played!). Ben Higgins, "Shiba Tsukimi, how many times per turn?", 19 Apr 2012
• Q: Here you say that you don't need to show the card that Walking the Way fetches but under the rules for searching it states "If an effect searches for a specific card (such as "Ring of Water") or card-type (such as "a Ring"), the player must show it if he chooses to retrieve it, to verify that he has retrieved the appropriate card or type, even if the search effect does not specify it is shown. [ADDED 6 April 2012] "
  So since Walking the Way doesn't specify a type of card you don't have to show it?
  A: Right. You do not have to show the card searched for by Walking the Way. Brook Cunningham, "searching for 'card type' follow up.", 8 Apr 2012
• Q: Referring to this ruling
  viewtopic.php?f=59&t=97025
  asako chukage After Chukage enters play: Search your discard pile, then hand, then deck, for a Ring of Water. Put it into play or in your hand.
  Referiing to chukage traits, i dont need to show my opponent that i took ring of water into hand?
  A: Not technically, but you might as well, since it's the only card you can legally take into your hand from the effect and he can call a judge to verify that you did so if you don't show him. Brook Cunningham, "Chukage not revealing ring of water", 29 Mar 2012
• Q: I came across the following in the EE Rules Glossary today:
  "Ranged Attack targeting occurs during action resolution and so is not required (see Abilities and actions, Required targeting). In other words, a Ranged Attack’s target or targets need not be legal or exist in order to announce the action. "
  So say I have a personality with Tsuruchi Daikyu, unopposed, at the present battlefield. I already took 3 battle actions this battle. Can I announce the RA from the bow, have it "fizzle" due to the no valid targets, yet still count as resolved (since *required* targeting and costs were paid) to satisfy the 4th and thus Ring of Water's entering play condition?
  Somehow it doesn't seem right...
  A: This is perfectly legal, as of Emperor Edition.
  Previously, the target of a Ranged Attack was (generally) a required target of the action, so if there were no legal targets, the action could not be announced. However, as of Emperor Edition, required targets are exactly those specified in the constraints block: targeting in the effects block is not covered by Required Targeting.
  You may become enlightened by freely shooting arrows into the air. Alex Jones, "Ranged Attacks required targeting vs. Ring of Water", 22 Mar 2012
• Q: e.g. Ring of Water.
  This is a trait, so it's always effective. So presumably you can play the Ring of Water in the following cases.
  Case 1: I fight a battle at a province and play 4 or more battle actions from cards with different titles. At the end of the turn, I draw a card and draw Ring of Water. I can play Ring of Water, since I have previously activated the conditions for the ring.
  Case 2: In one turn, I fight a battle and play four or more battle actions from cards with different titles. The following turn, I draw Ring of Water. I can play Ring of Water, since I have previously activated the conditions for the ring (i.e. the end of the turn doesn't cause game state to 'forget' that I met the conditions).
  Is this correct?
  Thanks, James Donnithorne-Tait
  A: It's a triggered trait, so it's not "always effective".
  See Triggers: Reactions and triggered traits have an occurrence in the game they respond to, known as a trigger. Triggers are usually written as happening “before” or “after” something else.
  "After" is always used in the sense of "immediately after", and not in the sense of "at some point in time later than". If a trait says, "After trigger X: Do Y", you must do Y immediately after X occurs.
  You may not play the Ring of Water in either of the two cases you describe. Alex Jones, "Elemental rings: when can you play them?", 22 Mar 2012
• Q: Does the action on Katana of Fire xp's created weapon count towards the four required to play Ring of Water, since that card does not have a title?
  Relevant texts:
  Katana of Fire Limited: Once per game: Create a +3F/+1C Fire • Weapon Item with the ability, "Battle: Bow this card unless this Personality is Fire, and target an enemy card without attachments: Destroy it" and attach it to one of your Personalities.
  Ring of Water After you resolve your fourth or later Battle action in one battle from cards with different titles: You may put this card into play from your hand.
  A: No. Abilities on cards without titles do not count towards Ring of Water's entering play conditions as they are not "different" from any other card title. Jon Palmer, "Katana of Fire xp and Ring of Water", 11 Feb 2012
• Q: I was wondering if created cards' battles abilities counted towards the condition for putting Ring of Water into play ?
  Created cards usually have no title/name so in my opinion, they shouldn't count. Is this correct ?
  A: That is correct. Cards without titles can never have "different titles" than anything else, so their abilities would never count for the Ring of Water's trait. Brook Cunningham, "Ring of Water and created cards", 30 Jan 2012
• Q: Came up last night in my first kolat edition game. If a bowed personality is moved home via Ring of Water will Hida's Guidance prevent the straightening?
  Our concensus was no because the straightening occurred after movement at home. However the action was taken at the battle. Not sure on this one.
  Ring of Water Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand, and choose your performing personality: Move him home or to a battlefield with one or more enemy units. If he moved, straighten his unit.
  Hida's Guidance Exp Before the first straightening each battle of a personality whose enemy leader is a Crab Clan player: Negate that straightening.
  Thanks! N8
  A: A "battle" is a period in time, not a location. Therefore, Hida's Guidance xp will negate the first straightening that happens during that period, no matter where the Personality is at the time. Jon Palmer, "Hida's Guidance Exp and Ring of Water", 13 Jan 2012
• Q: Two points here that I would like clarified - many of the relevant created cards now have token cards printed for them with a title - Tokoru's bear for example. Why does these not count as titles for cards?
  A: Because it's also perfectly legal to represent those created cards with a scrap of paper, or a glass bead, or what-have-you (see here). The effect that creates them doesn't give them a title, so they have none, no matter what you choose to use to represent them. Brook Cunningham, "Created cards and Ring of Water", 14 Dec 2011
• Q: Second, by this logic, a card that targets a personality with a 'different clan alignment' could never target a personality with no clan alignment as there is nothing to compare it to?
  A: Hypothetically and tentatively, yes. Although, I'd prefer not to make a general sweeping statement based on a snippit of text that may or may not be from an actual card. Exact wordings from actual cards are best for the most accurate rulings. Brook Cunningham, "Created cards and Ring of Water", 14 Dec 2011
• Q: Do granted abilities, for example from the various "Spirit of [x]" cards, count as abilities on the targeted card? Eg, can those abilities be used to put the Ring of Water into play or trigger similar effects that require the ability to be on the card? If yes, do these abilities also count as base abilities?
  A: Granted abilities are on the card to which they have been granted and come from that card, but are not base abilities of the card. Alex Jones, "Granted abilities, two part question", 21 Nov 2011
• Q: The Spirit personality created by Kitsune Tokoru has no name, ok. Does the use of its battle ability count toward the Ring of Water?
  A: No. This is an extension of this rule for keywords.
  http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Card_features#D ... e_keywords: "A card without a certain type of keyword has neither a 'different' nor 'the same' keyword as another card."
  Thus, a card without a title does not count as a card with a "different" title, as required by the Ring of Water.
  Precedent here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88678 Zen Faulkes, "Kitsune Tokoru and Ring of Water", 25 Oct 2011
• Q: Hello,
  When playing Beyond the Line, you are allowed to play a limited/open recon action as a battle action. Would this mean that a Limited/Open Recon played after the playing of Beyond the Line would qualify as a battle action and allow the Ring of Water to be played? Thanks, Example: 1st: Play Battle Action A 2nd: Play Battle Action B 3rd: Play Beyond the Line 4th: Play Dangerous Reconnaissance, Ring of Water Enters play
  Cards in Question:
  Title Beyond the Line Text Battle: Take an additional action to use a Limted or Open Recon ability as a Battle action, which must target the current battlefield's province. If you do, draw a card after the action's resolution.
  Ring of Water • Unique After you resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle: You may put this card into play from your hand. Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: Move one of your target units home or to a battlefield with one or more enemy units. If the unit moved, straighten it.
  Title Dangerous Reconnaissance Text Recon Limited: Target your unbowed Scout: Target a province. Draw a card. During your End Phase this turn, draw an additional card if you destroyed the targeted province in battle resolution.
  A: When playing Beyond the Line, you are allowed to play a limited/open recon ability as a battle action. Would this mean that a Limited/Open Recon played after the playing of Beyond the Line would qualify as a battle action and allow the Ring of Water to be played?
  Yes, but note my correction: you're taking a Battle action using a Limited or Open ability. Ring of Water's trait triggers off Battle actions resolving, not Battle abilities being used, so the additional action granted by Beyond the Line does count, as well as Beyond the Line itself. Alex Jones, "Beyond the Line & Ring of Water", 20 Jul 2011
• Q: Ring of the Void "Void • Unique After you resolve your fourth or later non-Kiho action from Strategies in one phase: You may put his card into play from your hand. Open: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: If any player has more cards in his hand than you do, or if you bowed this card, draw a card."
  Ring of Water "Water • Unique After you resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle: You may put this card into play from your hand. Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: Move one of your target units home or to a battlefield with one or more enemy units. If the unit moved, straighten it."
  If I play my fourth battle action that meets the requirements for both rings, do they enter play simultaneously or in the order I choose? I ask because they are traits, and not reactions, and I'm unclear on the order of entering play under such circumstances.
  A: These cards are put into play by triggered traits, both triggering off the same trigger - "after an action resolves". As described here, you decide which trait triggers first. Alex Jones, "Rings and order of entering play", 20 Jun 2011
• Q: I have a hypothetical situation: My opponent gives me a Ring of Water as a gift (using the event naoharu's gift). I have two questions:
  1) If I have three rings in play (say, earth, air, and fire) and two copies of ring of water in my hand and fulfill the condition for putting it into play, can I play both of them? If yes. does this count as "enlightenment" since I have played 5 rings by their own text?
  2) The same scenario as before, but in this case I have four rings in play already (earth, air fire, water). Can i put my opponent's gifted copy of ring of water into play? If so, does it count as an enlightenment victory?
  A: The Rings, as of Celestial Edition (or Samurai, I forget), are Unique. You may not put a Ring of Water into play if you already control a Ring of Water. Alex Jones, "Enlightenment?", 18 Jun 2011
• Q: So I saw this ruling. I don't believe the previous rulings for Ring of Water/Ring of Void can be applied here.
  The text of Offices of the Emerald Magistrates specifically says an action "on" a strategy, rather than the "from" phrase used on the Rings.
  From the Glossary
  On An ability, a trait or a keyword on a card is one either printed on the card, or granted to it by some effect.
  The ability granted to the player is not on Southern Blockade (as an ability), It is granted to the player, by Southern Blockade. Therefore it is "From" and also an "Effect" of Southern Blockade, but not an ability "On" Southern Blockade. Thus doesn't apply to the Gold Generation Ability (the Reaction) of Offices of the Emerald Magistrates which is looking for an ability "On" a strategy. Otherwise "From" and "On" are redundant terms in the glossary and we should get rid of one of them to avoid this sort of confusion.
  Believe me I wish it were otherwise, but the rules just don't say that.
  A: On An ability, a trait or a keyword on a card is one either printed on the card, or granted to it by some effect.
  From The source is the card that the effect, action or targeting is printed on, or the rulebook if it is printed there. There are three exceptions: ... 3. Costs and effects of traits and abilities given to other cards, copied from other cards, or on created cards, come from the card they are currently on.
  The ability granted to the player by Southern Blockade is "on" Southern Blockade, and the action is "from" Southern Blockade. Alex Jones, "Offices of the emerald magistrates and Southern Blockade", 28 Apr 2011
• Q: Does using the Imperial Favor's battle action count towards the actions required to put the Ring of Water into play?
  A: No.
  Ring of Water says, "After you resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle". The Player Abilities are in the Rulebook, not on cards. Alex Jones, "Ring of Water & Imperial Favor", 29 Mar 2011
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=88316#p1169796
  WIth referral to the second part of the ruling,
  Twanbon: If I use Changing Paths naming Ring of Water, Then discard Ring of Water for its battle action, and then put Ring of Water into play from my discard pile (due to Changing Paths' effect), can I use the Ring of Water again that turn while it is in play?
  Zen : No, due to the Tracking Rule (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Tracking_rule). The Ring was out of play but not face down.
  I think there is a confusion, changing path actually puts the ring back into hand. Then you can trigger for putting into play by it's own text. So ring of water can be used that turn again isn't it?
  A: Well, shoot. Silly key piece of information at the very end of the card! Thanks for the catch. Zen Faulkes, "One with the World + Re-using Rings", 13 Jan 2011
• Q: If I use Changing Paths naming Ring of Water, Then discard Ring of Water for its battle action, and then put Ring of Water into play from my discard pile (due to Changing Paths' effect), can I use the Ring of Water again that turn while it is in play?
  A: No, due to the Tracking Rule (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Tracking_rule). The Ring was out of play but not face down.
  Correction: That should be a "Yes, due to the Tracking Rule (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Tracking_rule). The Ring was out of play and face down." See below. Zen Faulkes, "One with the World + Re-using Rings", 12 Jan 2011
• Q: About this answer, I would like a clarification.
  I think that I can take the action, for the purposes of fulfilling the requirements for Ring of Air or Ring of Water, but the effects (movement of the personality) will fail. Am I right, or am I not allowed to take the action at all?
  A: You are correct. Nothing prevents you taking the action, but the Region's trait will cause the movement effect to fail. Brook Cunningham, "Flow of the elements vs Mountainous Region", 5 Jan 2011
• Q: I have a few questions regarding Flood the Earth and its interactions with Ring of Water and Ring of the Void.
  1a) Does Flood the Earth's created Terrain technically have a title? 1b) If not: if two Flood the Earths are activated in a single battle, do the individual Terrains count as 'cards with different titles'?
  2) Does playing Flood the Earth's created Terrain count as a Strategy for the purposes of Ring of the Void?
  Relevant cards: Flood the Earth Thunder Will only attach to a Thunder Shugenja. Battle: Destroy this card and bow this Shugenja: Create a Terrain Strategy with the ability, "Battle: Non-Naval Personalities at this battlefield bow after the resolution of each action they perform," and take an additional Battle action to play it (if legal).
  Ring of Water Water • Unique After you resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle: You may put this card into play from your hand. Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: Move one of your target units home or to a battlefield with one or more enemy units. If the unit moved, straighten it.
  Ring of the Void Void • Unique After you resolve your fourth or later non-Kiho action from Strategies in one phase: You may put his card into play from your hand. Open: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: If any player has more cards in his hand than you do, or if you bowed this card, draw a card.
  A: 1a) Does Flood the Earth's created Terrain technically have a title? No. See Card Features, Created Cards: A created card has no title.
  1b) If not: if two Flood the Earths are activated in a single battle, do the individual Terrains count as 'cards with different titles'? No - but they don't count towards the Ring of Water anyway, since they don't have a different title to other cards, by extension from the rules for Different and same keywords.
  2) Does playing Flood the Earth's created Terrain count as a Strategy for the purposes of Ring of the Void? Yes, because Ring of the Void doesn't care about card titles. Alex Jones, "Flood the Earth, Ring of the Void, and Ring of Water", 24 Oct 2010
• Q: I know there's been a ruling on this question here, but I would just like some clarification.
  Card: Ring of Water After you successfully resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with diffrent titles in one battle: You may put this card into play from your hand.
  Rulebook: Player Abilities Players may gain abilities from effects. The following is a reminder list of the abilities players start the game with.
  Tactical Battle: Any number of times per turn, discard a card and target one of your Tactician Personalities: Give him a Force bonus equal to the Focus Value of the discarded card.
  My question is this: Since the tactician is performing the rulebook action (targeting the Personality takes place before the colon), doesn't the action count as coming "From" the tactician (which IS a card) & therefore count for Water?
  Many thanks in advance for the clarification
  A: The Tactical Battle action that every Tactician can perform is granted by the rulebook.
  It is not on a card, and therefore does NOT count for purposes of the Ring of Water (or Void) Dan Jacobson, "Tactician for Ring of Water in CE", 6 Jun 2010
• Q: Togashi's Guidance:
  Text Kami • Unique Dragon Clan players have no maximum hand size.
  Reaction: After an action ends during which any Rings entered the discard pile from your hand or from your focused cards, if you are a Dragon Clan player, discard this card: Put one of those Rings into play or into your hand.
  QUESTION: Can I discard Ring Of Water to move someone in/out of battle as my fourth battle action, then react with the Guidance to put it back in my hand, then immediately Play Ring Of Water?
  A: "After an action ends" and "after an action resolves" have the same timing (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Abilities_and_a ... ction_ends).
  Because the Ring of Water enters play through a trait, it will always have to be played before the Reaction on Togashi's Guidance (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Timing#Resolvin ... _conflicts).
  Because you have to play the Ring before you can use the Reaction, and you can't "hold on" to an entering play trigger, this does not appear to work. You can get the Ring of Water into your hand, but the opportunity to play it will have passed. Just by a hair. Zen Faulkes, "Togashi's Guidance", 11 Nov 2009
• Q: According to the Rule Book:
  "A Personality who has already been in an attacking army during a battle resolution in the current Attack Phase will not move to a Battle Field."
  Does this mean I can NOT use card effects like Ring of Water and Suitengu's Gateway to bring a Personality who has been in an attacking army during a battle resolution in the current Attack Phase into an additional battle?
  A: That is what it means. Zen Faulkes, "Post Battle Resolution Movement", 22 Oct 2009
• Q: Hi there,
  For the purpose of playing Ring of Water, would playing Do Not Turn Your Back's first action on a straightened personality count as succesful?
  Thanks!
  A: If no straightening actually occurs, the action is not successful.
  It would not count for Ring of Water. Dan Jacobson, "Do Not Turn Your Back and Ring of Water", 10 Sep 2009
• Q: With regards to this: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=79002
  Wouldn't just by putting a terrain in play change the game state for purposes of putting rings into play? It's my understanding that while a terrain remains in play, other players cannot put one in play. Therefore, a game state has changed.
  A: No, because that is not a card effect. It's a rulebook effect. "Successful" cares about card effects, not rulebook effects. This was dealt with in an earlier thread, which I'll be merging with this one. Zen Faulkes, "Terrains and Ring of Water", 9 Sep 2009
• Q: If the answer is "yes," and I don't see any logical possibility of this being the correct anwer, it would create the conumdrum of when exactly to play the Ring of Water, since the Ring has to be played in response to the "successful resolution" of the battle action on Mountains of the Phoenix, and the action on the Mountains has finished resolving long before we know whether or not it will be successful.
  A: I think the point of confusion is that you're looking for a physical change on the table to occur -- a card bowed, destroyed, rehonored, token generated, card moved, etc. "Game state" is more broadly defined, and includes things that are "lurking" off-table, as it were.
  Before an action with a delayed effect is played, nothing will happen some particular trigger occurs. After the action is played, the delayed effect will occur when its trigger is met. That wasn't the case before the action, so the game state has changed. Zen Faulkes, "Delayed Effects, Reactions and Rings", 9 Sep 2009
• Q: Mountains of the Phoenix. At which point does the "Terrain action" resolve when you play Mountains of the Phoenix?
  A: It has only delayed effects, so will resolve after those effects are activated, which is nearly right after the card is played.(http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Abilities_and_a ... resolution) Zen Faulkes, "Terrains and Ring of Water", 30 Aug 2009
• Q: I've brought a card into play at the current battlefield. Doesn't that count as "doing something"?
  A: It's not an effect of card text. Card text alone determines success, not rulebook text. Zen Faulkes, "Terrains and Ring of Water", 30 Aug 2009
• Q: At which point does the "Terrain action" resolve?
  A: It will depend on the particular text of the Terrain. There is no general rule. Zen Faulkes, "Terrains and Ring of Water", 29 Aug 2009
• Q: If I play any Terrain, does it always count as successfully resolved for the purposes of playing Ring of Water?
  A: No, it does not. Remember that to be successful, the effects of the action must do something; that playing the card alone does something doesn't matter. Zen Faulkes, "Terrains and Ring of Water", 29 Aug 2009
• Q: My opponent uses an action: "Battle: Ranged 2 Attack" targetting my 4F personality. Has my opponent successfully resolved a battle action for Ring of Water purposes?
  My opponent uses a Ranged 2 attack targetting my 4F personality, and I use the reaction on Outer Walls to lower the ranged attack's strength by 2. Have I successfully resolved an action for Ring of the Void purposes? Part of me wants to say yes because I changed some numerical value, but part of me wants to say no because I didn't change the final outcome (the personality wasn't dying either way).
  Final question: My opponent uses a Ranged 2 attack targetting my 2F personality. I use one copy of Outer Walls to reduce its strength by 2, and then I use the reaction on a 2nd copy of Outer Walls. Does the 2nd copy of Outer Walls count as a successfully resolved action? I'm not sure because the strength was already zero. Would anything change if the target was a 0F personality?
  Thanks for any help!
  A: Ranged Attacks' effects are conditional destruction. Did they destroy anything?
  If the answer is no, then the action is not successful.
  As for the Second Outer Walls: Was the Ranged Attack's Strength reduced? In the case of Outer Walls, barring stuff like Fall on Your Knees, it will always be successful. A Ranged 2 Attack who had its strength reduced by two Outer Walls would need it's strength increased by 4 to reach its original strength. Dan Jacobson, "Ranged Attacks, Outer Walls, "Successfully"", 24 Jul 2009
• Q: If Changing Paths is my fourth battle action this battle (assuming all were from different cards), acn I name Water, immediately go find Water, and put it into play?
  A: That does seem to be the point of the text "You then have a chance to play it by its own text" that you quoted on Changing Paths. Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water + Changing Paths", 16 Feb 2009
• Q: Say I play against a Unicorn, his turn, he declares an attack, assignes none in the Infantry, I assign my only unit to one province and he Cavaleries his unit to another. He then chooses to resolve the battle in the province where my unit is. A simple question, just to make sure: I can play Ring of Water to move my unit to the battlefield where his unit is, can't I? Or do I have to wait till the resolution of the battle in the province with his unit begins? The first variantIt's obviously more preferable, because I'd get the first action, but sometimes I doubt such a move is relevant...
  A: You don't have to wait until the battle with the Cavalry unit; you may move during your Personality's battle.
  I'm sorry that doubt plagues you, but don't worry about "relevance". There is no longer any such Rule.
  All you need concern yourself with are the Rules of 1) Presence and 2) Location. (see here)
  1) Do you have presence at the current battlefield? Yes!
  2) You're targeting a unit with Ring of Water's action. Is IT at the current battlefield? Yes!
  The action is legal. Brook Cunningham, "Moving from an unopposed to an oppoused battle", 25 Dec 2008
• Q: Regarding this thread: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=69248
  I'm not asking if I can choose where the targeted unit will move. I'm asking if I can choose a target that's only legal for bringing into the battle, not taking it out of. I will rephrase my question, perhaps it will make more sense:
  I have presence in a battle, it doesn't matter who exactly. My opponent has a unit there, let's call it unit A. He also controls another unit at his home, unit B. He tries to play Ring of Water, so that unit A will leave the battle and go to his home. I play Misdirection and make him target instead the unit B. Since the unit B is at his home, his only choice that would satisfy the Rule of Location would be for unit B to move into the battle. Is this correct and legal or not?
  A: Yes, you may use Misdirection to change the targeting for the Ring of Water... but the timing here is very tricky.
  The exact scenario you desrcibe should never technically occur, but I know it often does in actual play. I imagine your opponent doing something like pulling the Ring of Water from his hand, tapping it onto his unit in battle, and saying, "I'm going to Ring this guy home..." Technically, however, you react with Misdirection (as per its text) BEFORE your opponent picks Ring of Water's target. At this point, he has announced the action, but you should have no way of knowing for certain that he would target the unit in the battle, if he also has legal targets at home (as you say he does).
  All that said, if your opponent doesn't make the play mistake of running his announcement and targeting all together, and you feel sure that he's announcing Ring of Water in order to cut and run, you may Misdirect and cause him to target one of his units at home. He is then forced by the rules to choose the effect that moves it in, rather than choosing to move it home (which would fail), because "A Battle Action can target or be taken by a card in a unit at another location if its costs or effects say they can move the unit to the current battlefield. Choices within the action must then be taken, if possible, such that they do move the unit there" (Citation).
  Hopefully for you, this will ruin his day. But, there remains the possibility that he might have wanted to bring that other unit in all along, and you chose the target he was going to anyway. Good luck. Brook Cunningham, "Misdirection and Ring of Water", 7 Jul 2008
• Q: My opponent has only one personality in a battle against two of mine. He tries to discard the Ring of Water from his hand to move his unit home. Can I react with Misdirection to make him target a different unit he has at his home, so that it will move in the battle?
  A: Only the unit is targeted; where it goes is not targeted, and therefore not subject to Misdirection.
  [Edited to remove erroneous link. Sorry for the misreading.] Zen Faulkes, "Misdirection and Ring of Water", 7 Jul 2008
• Q: Blade of the Pure Soul: If my opponent assigns no units against my army with this card, may I use the battle action on Blade of the Pure soul legally (and count towards playing Ring of Water by its own text)?
  A: Yes. That's what "may" means. Zen Faulkes, "Blade of the Pure Soul", 22 May 2008
• Q: Put this up elsewhere, but was unable to reach a conclusion.
  "Unshakable" -- Tactical Battle: Target an Action card in your discard pile. Play it for one of its Battle abilities as an additional action. Remove this card and the target card from the game, even if out of play, after that action ends. (Observe restrictions on the ability's number of uses, such as the default "once per turn.") "Courage in Death" --Reaction: Before one of your Personalities is destroyed during battle: Give another target Personality a Force bonus equal to your Personality's Chi. If you are a Crab Clan player, delay your Personality's destruction until after the battle ends.
  Due to Unshakable's lack of colon to create specific costs, as I understand it everything listed on Unshakable is an effect. Here's the question:
  Unshakable can target a copy of Courage in Death in the discard pile that has resolved this turn. What happens next? A) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Unshakable and Courage in Death are then removed from the game after Courage in Death's delayed effect ends at the normal time. B) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Neither Unshakable nor Courage in Death are removed from the game because Courage in Death does not have an "ending" trigger based off of Unshakable's timing. C) Unshakable resolves. Courage in Death cannot. Unshakable and Courage in Death are then removed from the game immediately following the targeting, as Courage in Death has no legal action which can resolve, regardless of once-per-turn.
  GENERALIZATION QUESTION: If Unshakable targets an Action card without a Battle action that can be resolved, does Unshakable fizzle and leave itself in the discard rather than remove itself from the game due to never reaching the necessary timing trigger? (I ask this in all seriousness for multiple reasons, primarily Unshakable being much easier to play "pointlessly" to satisfy the Ring of Water.)
  ALTERNATE GENERALIZATION QUESTION: As the targeting is not behind a colon, is it a cost that must be satisfied, or is it an effect targeting that can fail? Can I simply toss Unshakable away as a Tactical Battle action with no legal targets in the discard pile?
  A: You know, this seems like it would fall under the Good Faith Rule.
  If it were a question of a card that you were supposed to put into play, rather than simply play for an action, the Good Faith Rule as it already reads would prohibit playing Unshakable.
  I'll bring it up to the Rules Team to see if an extension / clarification of the Good Faith Rule can cover this.
  For the time being, assume you can't choose an Action Card that you can't play in good faith. Martin Lund, "Unshakable & Courage in Death", 9 Apr 2008
• Q: If I use a focus effect on an action card such as False Trail, does it count as playing a action card?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_P-Q#Play: "(T)o utilize an Action card by putting it into the resolution area." No. Zen Faulkes, "Focus Effects and Ring Of Water/Void", 8 Dec 2007
• Q: Strangely enough, this is a question about the wording on the Rings of Water and Void.
  Ring of the Void says: After you successfully resolve your fourth or later non-Kiho action from Action cards in one phase: You may put his card into play from your hand.
  Ring of Water has similar wording, also requiring successful resolution.
  The Comprehensive Rules quite clearly define a successful action as one that changed game state somehow, so if an action somehow has all its effects negated, it is not considered successful, right?
  Now here's the question: do the conditions on Ring of the Void and Ring of Water require that all four actions be "successfully resolved", or only that the fourth action be successfully resolved? In other words, if an attacker has his first Battle action's effects negated by Reinforce the Gates, then successfully plays 3 more Battle actions, all from action cards with different titles and all non-Kihos, can he play the Rings or not?
  A: You need four successfully resolved Actions. Martin Lund, "Ring of Water/Void, Successfully", 27 Nov 2007
• Q: Zen: In this rules answer, you seem to indicate that making use of Equipping satisfies one of the Battle actions necessary for Ring of Water.
  What is the name of the card that produces this Action? Why is it not simply "Equip," from the Rulebook, which would then not satisfy Ring of Water?
  A: Man, it is so past my bedtime.
  Fixed. Zen Faulkes, "Clarification on Eastern Hub Port + Ring of Water", 4 Sep 2007
• Q: I declare an attack with my random naval peep and attach a item to him as a battle action. Do this battle count for one of the four battles I have to do for the Ring of Water?
  A: No. Eastern Hub Port has a trait, not an action. (Fixed.) Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water + Eastern Hub Port", 4 Sep 2007
• Q: Does the choice of location that ring of water moves to (Home or Opposed Battlefield) target any location?
  A: There is no implicit targeting. If the word "target" is there, it does. If it isn't, it doesn't. Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water, and performing actions", 4 Sep 2007
• Q: Does a follower performing an action count as the personality performing the action as well?
  A: In general, nothing is performed by two things at once. Could be possible with specific card text, but it won't occur by default. (Clarified.) Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water, and performing actions", 4 Sep 2007
• Q: http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=61161 http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=59814&p=768323&hilit=Obsidian+Dragon#p768323
  Okay. These seem to contradict each other. This is the way I see it, please correct me if I'm wrong. We'll use the same two effects so as to keep things easy. Obsidian Dragon and Earth Becomes Sky. We are also assuming in this case that the Personality getting hit is a 4 Chi 4 PH personality.
  Situation A: Personality assigns Vs. Obsidian Dragon. They go to 1 Chi. They then Get hit with Earth Becomes Sky. Do they go to 1 Chi again via the Dragon modifying its penalty, or does the personality die? (In my estimation they die.)
  Situation B: Personality assigns. Personality gets hit with Earth Becomes Sky. Obsidian Dragon gets brought in via Ring of Water or another movement effect. Do they go down to 1 Chi, or die? (In my estimation they go to 1 Chi.)
  A: Marty is outvoted. Follow the Obsidian Dragon entry in the wiki. Zen Faulkes, "Obsidian Dragon Clarification (3)", 2 Sep 2007
• Q: My first question for the day is refering to this question.
  You see, I believe I've asked in the past if Reaction chains (in this case, the Strike the Summit/Center/Base chain) would count towards bringing the Ring of Water into play. I was told that, no, the chain would not help me towards this goal. (It would help me with the Ring of Air, though.) I was told that I could only bring the Water Ring into play if I'd play all the different, "second-use" Battle actions on each Strike kiho, seperately, beforehand. (And then a fourth Battle Action, of course.)
  Has that changed? Because if so, it would be nice to know. If not, maybe adding this to the answer of the other user's question would help to avoid confusion.
  In any case, that was just something that roundhouse kicked me in the eye.
  A: For some weird reason, I overlooked that those cards were being used for Reactions, not Battle actions. Sorry. Zen Faulkes, "RE: Question about playing Rings", 23 Aug 2007
• Q: If I happned to have a Ring of Water in my hand at the same time and played one more battle action, could I then play Ring of Water from my hand even though I used 3 actions towards meeting the requirements to play Ring of Air?
  A: No. The Ring of Water requires Battle actions. Not Reactions. (Fixed.) Zen Faulkes, "Question about Playing Rings", 23 Aug 2007
• Q: (C)ould I use a stronghold as one of the actions required to put the Ring of Water into play?
  A: Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water and Stronghold Battle Actions", 6 Aug 2007
• Q: If I ambush somebody and they then send me home, can i move that same personality back into the battle? As ambush states no OTHER units may move there, it doesn't say the assigned personality cannot move back...
  cards: Ambush Limited: Target one of your unbowed Personalities: Create a battlefield (not at any province). Assign your Personality to attack there. Assign another player’s target Personality to defend there, even if bowed. No other units may move there. Fight a battle there. After it ends, lose 5 Honor.
  Ring of Water Water After you successfully resolve your fourth or later Battle action from cards with different titles in one battle: you may put this card into play from your hand. Battle: Bow this card or discard it from your hand: Move one of your target units home or to a battlefield with one or more enemy units. If the unit moved, straighten it.
  A: Yes, you can move your personality back in. Chris Fuchs, "Ambush & the Ring of Water", 4 Aug 2007
• Q: When determining whether targeting, costs, effects or actions come “from” or are done "by" a card, look to the card where the thing in question is originally physically printed. If it is printed in the rulebook then the effect is not from any card. Example: Your event card gives another player an ability. The action from that ability, and its effects, are “from” your cards even though they are “on” the other player.
  A: You can read more about where effects are "from" here.
  Now, if an effect grants an ability to, say, one of your Personalities then the ability is "from" that card.
  Something like The Way of the Horse and Bow: Martin Lund, "Clarification on Ring of Water Play Requirements", 30 Jul 2007
• Q: Limited: Target a Samurai Personality you control. Permanently give him the Cavalry trait and "Battle: Bow this Personality: Produce a ranged attack with a strength equal to this Personality's Chi." Draw a card.
  A: Could give your Personality an ability which you could then use in Battle and that would be an Ability from a card with the Personality's card title due to this: Martin Lund, "Clarification on Ring of Water Play Requirements", 30 Jul 2007
• Q: EXCEPTION 3: Effects of traits and abilities given to other cards, copied from other cards, or on created cards, come from the card they are currently on.
  A: - Marty Lund Deputy Rules Monkey
  [Edited for correctness] Martin Lund, "Clarification on Ring of Water Play Requirements", 30 Jul 2007
• Q: During the Battle Action phase, I assign Muketsu xp to a different battlefield than the one my opponent has assigned his attackers. I Ring of Water another one of my personalities into the battlefield; Can Muketsu xp's Reaction target one of my opponents personalities even if he (Muketsu) is not at the current battlefield?
  Thank you.
  A: Reactions are not subject to the rules of Presence, Location, or Relevance. Chris Fuchs, "Muketsu xp and Targeting", 13 Jul 2007
• Q: (D)o Battle/Open Actions counts as Battle actions for the purposes of Ring of Water?
  A: Yes. Rules: "Abilities with two designators, such as “Open/Battle,” count as having both individual designators(.)" Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water and Battle/Open Actions", 8 Jul 2007
• Q: Lion attacks, provokes a personality. Dragon announces Ring of Water, with intent to move his personality out of the battle. Can the Lion Misdirect the personality target to a personality at home?
  A: The magic (but apparently never asked) question: Was the Personality a legal target for the Ring of Water in the first place? Yes? Then the redirection is legal. Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water and Misdirection", 25 Mar 2005
• Q: If he can, the rule of relevance should then force the personality at home to move into the battle, but if for some reason it doesn't, does the Ring then target the province to which he is moving, allowing the Lion to choose the province to which the target goes?
  A: As always, the redirection must be legal, so during battle, would have to meet both Presence and Relevance. Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water and Misdirection", 25 Mar 2005
• Q: Does the ring of water target BOTH the personality AND the location, or just the personality?
  A: Both. You have to pick who and where. Zen Faulkes, "Ring of Water//Misdirection Followup", 25 Mar 2005
• Q: I was always under the impression that the Ring of Water was changed back to the original way of playing it. Your opponent plays a terrain, then you destroy the terrain (Superior Tactics, Discovering Anvil of Earth, etc), then you play a terrain of your own. If you then win the battle with that terrain, you can play the Ring of Water. You might even play a terrain first, then the terrain is destroyed, then you play another. But doesn't it require two terrains to be played in order to play the ring?
  A: Yes, per the Ring of Water's MRP, at least two Terrains would've had to have been played during the battle in order to bring it into play by its trait. Everything you described above is accurate, except "if you win the battle with that Terrain". The conditions are that you destroy any cards or provinces during resolution (so you don't even have to win; could've been a tie, and your Terrain doesn't have to still be around at that time). Brook Cunningham, "Oracle of the Void #rules", 9 Sep 2023
• Q: 20F Ring of Water: Assuming I played two terrains in the battle, but then I am tied with the opponent so both armies get slaughtered in resolution, can I still put the Ring into play? It just says "destroyed any cards" so I am assuming I can?
  A: Yep. Brook Cunningham, "Oracle of the Void #rules", 5 Mar 2023