Seiden Sanzo

Legend of the Five Rings card from Celestial Edition, Khan's Defiance, Samurai Edition Banzai

Card Type

Holding

Gold Cost

2

Keywords

Temple

Card Text

w: Produce 2 Gold, or 3 Gold if paying for a Hero which may only pay for that card.
Limited: Give a target Personality you own and control Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins.

Legality

Age of Enlightenment (Lotus), Destroyer War (Celestial), Race for the Throne (Samurai)

Deck

Dynasty

Story

2004 Blind Fury - Lee Masheter

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, "Seiden Sanzo 2G Bow this card: Produce 2 Gold, or 3 Gold if paying for a Hero. Limited: Target a Personality you own and control. Give him Cavalry and +3F Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins." [MRP, Celestial Edition, 29 June 2009] Comprehensive Rules, Celestial Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, February 2012, p. 152

Rules Q&A

• Q: Would the answer be different if the battle progressed this way? Last Stand personality assigned to one battle. Non-Last Stand Personality assigned somewhere else (maybe with a Seiden Sanzo bonus or something). Either personality moves to the other's battle field. JEV is played. Non-Last Stand personality sent home.
  A: No. The effect begins anew every time the condition is met (http://rules.l5r.com/CE_Effects#Continuous_effects). Zen Faulkes, "Last Stand + Justly Earned Victory", 2 Jul 2010
• Q: This seems like an obvious question, but my friends and I cannot come to an agreement, and I didn't see anything when I did a search.
  Akodo's Guidance gives +1 PH to attacking lions, and lets you kill someone with equal or lower personal honor. You must discard Akodo's Guidance as a cost though, so am I right to assume that the bonus PH goes away before he gets to kill my guy?
  Basic example A: My opponent attacks me with a Lion who has 2 printed personal honor. He also has Akodo's Guidance out. He blows his guidance and his guy to kill my defender with 3 personal honor.
  Is that a legal play?
  I know he picks targets first, then pays costs, but by the time the cost is paid he on longer has equal or more personal honor, so the effect would fizzle and he would learn a valuable lesson about trying to kill my clan champion with a 5 gold scrub.
  The obvious related question is how would this timing work with something like Deflection or Seiden Sanzo thrown in? Could I redirect to a target that is legal during the targeting phase, but not legal by the time he pays the cost in order to make the effect fizzle? Please say yes.
  Thanks.
  Akodo's Guidance
  Attacking Lion Clan personalities +1F and +1 PH.
  Battle: If you are a Lion Clan player, discard this card and destroy your target Lion Clan personality: destroy a target enemy personality with equal or lower Personal Honor.
  A: All targets must be legal at the time targets are chosen.
  The order:
  A) Announce the action (Akodo's Guidance) B) Choose Targets This is where you have to meet the requirements of the personal honor check. All effects that change targeting must still meet the targeting requirements of the original action. Sorry, no "fizzling" in this manner at least. C) Pay Costs (Discarding Akodo's Guidance and Destroying the Lion personality come here) D) Effects (Kaboom!) Dan Jacobson, "Akodo's Guidance Timing", 19 Feb 2010
• Q: Just wanted to ask... what am I missing?
  The current ruling on how Deflection works against tokens generated by Isawa Fusota seem to indicate that the previous ruling on Shikibu no Oni and Seiden Sanzo might be at odds with the idea of the resolution of an action. As I understand it, Shikibu ignores the destruction effect of Seiden Sanzo because he is not facing a destruction effect as the action resolves, but it is delayed. But if a targeting still occurs for one, and counts as an action... wouldn;t the destruction effect also count as a resolution of a created delayed action?
  A: What rulings are you talking about?
  Mod nudge: When referring to old rulings, please include relevant links to those rulings. We need context to have a hope of answering things correctly. Thanks! Zen Faulkes, "Fusota and Shikibu confusion?", 26 Sep 2009
• Q: viewtopic.php?p=1035998#p1035998
  Doesn't the effect of Seiden Sanzo end when the turn does, as that is the standard duration for effects?
  A: Whoops. Missed the "next turn" condition in the question. You're right. Zen Faulkes, "Duration of effect on a dead personality", 9 Sep 2009
• Q: (I)f I use Seiden Sanzo on Hida Kaoru, then she dies at the beginning of my dynasty phase, then on my next turn, I Will her back into play, does she still have +3 force and the cavalry trait?
  A: Yes, for reasons given in previous post.
  Whoopsie: That's wrong, because I missed "next turn." Effects last their normal duration whether a card is in play or out. Here, that's end of turn. Zen Faulkes, "Duration of effect on a dead personality", 9 Sep 2009
• Q: Hi,
  I didn't found anything about this, so...
  I play the Seiden Sanzo' Limited action. Then, the personality died at the begining of the Dinasty phase.
  When the Seiden Sanzo' effects (cavalry and +3F) end and why? - at the end of the turn - when the personality enter in the Discard pile - never
  More generaly, what happens on the duration of an effect when it's applied on a card in play which become out of play before the "normal" end of thise effect? Have the duration of the effect is changed/negated or nothing?
  Seiden Sanzo Limited: Target a Personality you own and control. Give him Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins.
  A: See Effects, and in particular Tracking Rule: “Memory” of the status of individual cards ends when the card enters a deck or a hand, or otherwise becomes both face-down and out of play (such as after a card in the deck or hand is shown). This includes dishonorable status, ongoing effects, and whether or not an ability has been used.
  Ongoing effects (such as "Give him Cavalry and +F") on a dead Personality have their normal duration; delayed effects (such as "Destroy him after your next Dynasty Phase begins") are applied normally. These effects are only erased if the Personality is both face down and out of play, for example in a hand, deck or face-down in a province. Alex Jones, "Duration of effect on a dead personality", 2 Sep 2009
• Q: Shikibu + Seiden Sanzo= Seiden Sanzo says in the last sentence. "Destroy him at the start of your next Dynasty Phase." If I have another presonality in my home can I remove him from play and not destroy Shikibu?
  A: Yes. Zen Faulkes, "Shikibu no Oni Exp. questions", 21 May 2009
• Q: I have Hida Daizu in play (and no other personality), with a O-Shiken attached. I target him with seiden sanzo. Then at the start of my dynasty phase, Hida daizu is destroyed because of Seiden Sanzo. So 0-Shiken goes to the discard pile and Hida Daizu comes back into play (because of his trait). Can i re-attach O-Shiken to him?
  A: No.
  O-Shiken is played "after an action resolves," which means it must be used after immediate effects resolve. Destruction is a delayed effect.
  http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_R#Resolve: "(An action) stops resolving when its sequence of effect activation has ended, even if the application of some effects has been delayed." Zen Faulkes, "Daizu, seiden sanzo and o-shiken", 10 Mar 2008
• Q: Will has a gold cost of *, and reads Dark Virtue Battle: If there are any enemy units at the current battlefield, target a dead Samurai Personality you own: Bring him into play there, paying 2 less Gold and ignoring Honor Requirements. Private Traders produce 2 gold, or 3 for an action card. Seiden Sanzo produces 2 gold, or 3 for a hero. If I bring a hero into play using the action card Will, how much gold towards the cost will the Private Trader make? If I bring a hero into play using the action card Will, how much gold towards the cost will the Seiden Sanzo make?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Rulings_W#Will: "The gold paid is the cost of the Personality, not Will." Zen Faulkes, "Will", 21 Feb 2008
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=62011
  Just a yes or no please...is the personality removed from the game if he's in the discard pile?
  A: Yes.
  viewtopic.php?f=59&t=61943 Zen Faulkes, "Huh? Maw's Grave and Seiden Sanzo", 30 Sep 2007
• Q: If I use the open ability on The Maw's Grave and the limited ability on Seiden Sanzo on the same personality, is the personality still removed from the game at the end of the turn even though he has been destroyed?
  A: Hm. This question was, "Do cards 'remember' things when they've been out of play?" seems to be the FAQ of the day.
  Yes, unless they were also face-down. See http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Tracking_rule
  (Additional: See also viewtopic.php?f=59&t=62011) Zen Faulkes, "Maw's Grave + Seiden Sanzo", 22 Sep 2007
• Q: Okay, per Adeiko ruling I began to question about Assigning blame, wedge and seiden sanzo:
  Assigning blame: Political Reaction: After one of your Personalities is destroyed, if you control a Courtier: Dishonor a target Personality. His controller loses 3 Honor; this loss can be negated but not reduced.
  Seiden Sanzo: Limited: Target a Personality you own and control. He gains Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him at the start of your next Dynasty Phase.
  Wedge: Battle: Target one of your Personalities. You can not target cards in his unit with actions until after this battle ends. After this battle’s Resolution Segment begins, double his Force and the Force of each Follower in his unit. Destroy him after the battle ends.
  The question is: With the new ruling about not being able to react to "delayed" effects, can I still react to a Wedge with Assigning blame?
  A: Yes. Adeiko is worded much differently than Assigning Blame. Chris Fuchs, "Reaction to "effects" that are delayed", 13 Sep 2007
• Q: (C)ould I, as the active player, choose to have the first Seiden Sanzo destroy Daizu, then have the second Seiden Sanzo destroy him again (while he's still dead), and then have his trait trigger and bring him back into play?
  A: No. One destruction effect occurs. Daizu's trait resolves before the next identical effect resolves. Zen Faulkes, "Seiden Sanzo and Hida Daizu Again", 18 Jul 2007
• Q: If I use 2 Seiden Sanzos on Hida Daizu, will he live through the start of my dynasty phase or not?
  A: Not. Each destruction effect is separate. Zen Faulkes, "Seiden Sanzo and Hida Daizu", 17 Jul 2007
• Q: Seiden Sanzo has the following limited action:
  Limited: Target a personality. He gains Cavalry and +3F. Destroy him at the end of this turn.
  I target Hida Daizu (basic) with the above ability from two separate Seiden Sanzo's.
  Since:
  A) The destructions occur at the same trigger
  B) Daizu's trait occurs after he is destroyed
  Can I:
  Resolve the destructions from Seiden Sanzo first and THEN trigger Daizu's trait (on the final destruction effect)?
  Thanks!
  A: The first destruction effect will trigger, Daizu dies, returns via trait, second destruction effect triggers, Daizu dies again.
  Or, if you choose not to use Daizu's trait after the first destruction, the second destruction would be negated, and there would be no destruction to trigger his trait. Chris Fuchs, "Multiple Seiden Sanzo and Hida Daizu (basic)", 28 Jun 2007