Suitengu's Torch

Legend of the Five Rings card from Emperor Edition, Promotional–Emperor

Card Type

Stronghold

Province Strength

7

Gold Production

4

Starting Family Honor

2

Clan

Mantis

Keywords

Thunder

Card Text

Reaction: After you announce a Thunder Battle action: Its effects will not be negated or delayed.
Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target an enemy Personality: Move him home.

Legality

Age of Conquest (Emperor)

Deck

Pre-Game

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: I looking for clarifiction when two card are opossite :
  Event resolve : Too Close to Home: You may choose and destroy a Region. Until your next turn begins, negate all movement to and from battlegrounds.
  I declare attack , assign few personality
  and my oponent start to use : The Shadow's Lair: Ninja Battle: Once per battle, even if this card is bowed and even if you control no units at the current battlefield, target one or more unopposed units with combined total Force of 9 or lower, or one opposed unit: Move each target home; this will not be negated or delayed if you control a Ninja.
  Are my personality will be moved froma battle ?
  how about same situation when my oponent start to use : Suitengu's Torch : Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target an enemy Personality: Move him home. while react with Suitengu's Torch : Reaction: After you announce a Thunder Battle action: Its effects will not be negated or delayed.
  Are my personality will be moved from battle ? I try to find in rules forum topic for this combination ... but I cannot.
  A: "Will not be negated" will always trump "negate" - that's the purpose of writing "will not be negated". Please see Effects prevention in the CR. Jon Palmer, "Too Close to Home + The Shadow's Lair / Suitengu's Torch", 12 Nov 2012
• Q: Pretty sure I know the answer, but I want to make sure.
  Cards:
  Suitengu's Torch Reaction: After you announce a Thunder Battle action: Its effects will not be negated or delayed. Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target an enemy Personality: Move him home.
  Moshi Ino Battle: Ino summons a storm. After the next action not performed by a Thunder Personality resolves this battle, the player who took it chooses to discard a card or bow the performer. You may take an additional Battle action.
  Scenario: A player uses Moshi Ino's action and decides to take the additional action. They decide to use the Battle action on Suitengu's Torch. After announcing the Battle action, they decide to use the Reaction on the stronghold. Since a reaction is an action, and its not performed, does this still trigger the effect setup by Ino's Battle action?
  A: Yes, as the Torch's Reaction is not performed by anyone, it will trigger Ino's effect. Jon Palmer, "Moshi Ino and Suitengu's Torch", 2 Nov 2012
• Q: Suitengu's Torch says: Reaction: After you announce a Thunder Battle action: Its effects will not be negated or delayed.
  Inexorable says: Reaction: After another player announces a Reaction during the Combat Segment: Its effects will not negate other effects.
  If I attack a Mantis player and he, as the defender, plays the first action as a Thunder action send home with the Reaction off the stronghold, can I use Inexorable to counter the effects of the stronghold reaction and then play a movement negation card?
  A: No.
  A negation effect can itself be negated or otherwise prevented, but "will not" is not preventable.
  See Effects, "Does not/Will not" versus Negation: These phrasings are equivalent in the way their form of prevention works, and the rules on prevention below refer to both of them. The main difference between the two is that in the card set, negation effects are sometimes specifically prevented with wording such as "will not be negated," whereas there is no such wording to prevent "does not" effects as a specific category. Alex Jones, "Suitengu's Torch vs Inexorable", 10 Jul 2012
• Q: "Suitengu's Torch" reaction reads: After you announce a thunder battle action: It's effects will not be negated or delayed.
  At what time does this reaction need to be announced?
  a) After the action is declared, but before targeting? b) After targeting, but before resolution?
  A: The answer is "a)".
  Pointedly, the technical term for "declaring" an action as you put it is to "annouce" it (see here), so I'm sure you can see how that makes the timing of Suitengu's Torch's Reaction trigger in relation to taking another action somewhat more clear and exact. Brook Cunningham, "Suitengu's Torch and reaction timing.", 4 Apr 2012
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=95590&p=1266688&hilit=Suitengu%27s#p1266688
  I read the above thread. Why does it work that way? I thought that when an action was taken it fully resolves. There are no chains essentially.
  Thus, why doesn't the fact that Entrenched Position was used first and fully resolved cause the action's effects to be negated even if Suitengu's Torch's reaction is used afterwards?
  A: Entrenched position does fully resolve, and sets up negation that will negate the effects of the action. However, Suitengu's Torch's reaction then also fully resolves, and sets up a prevention to that negation. Therefore, when the original actions effects are resolving, it will see both negation and prevention of negation, and the prevention of negation wins. Jon Palmer, "How reactions resolve - Suitengu's Torch vs Entrenched", 19 Feb 2012
• Q: Situation:
  mantis player attacks Aroru defends,
  Mantis uses naval invasion reaction and target Aroru with Stronghold battle to move him home
  Can I use Aroru reaction to jump back to the battle?
  Suitengu's Torch Thunder Reaction: After you announce a Thunder Battle action: Its effects will n ot be negated or delayed. Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target an enemy Personality: Move him home.
  Shosuro Aroru (Experienced 2) Scorpion Clan • Ninja • Duelist • Experienced 2 • Unique Will not attach non-Ninja Followers. Reaction: When an action would target a Ninja at Aroru's location: Choose another of your cards. The action targets it instead, if legal. After the action's resolution, you may move Aroru to a different location. Battle: Other players may not take Reactions until this action ends. Ranged 5 Attack.
  A: Yes, if you use Aroru's reaction in this case, and choose an illegal target, Aroru will remain targeted, be sent home, and after the action's resolution you may move him back into the battle. Jon Palmer, "Suitengu's Torch vs Shosuro Aroru xp2", 13 Feb 2012
• Q: the situation is:
  player A has used a Suitengu's Torch reaction on an thunder action
  player B plays The Power of a Word reaction
  Can player A choose to negate his action that cannot be negated and make The Power of a Word reaction not working at all?
  Suitengu's Torch Thunder Reaction: After you announce a Thunder Battle action: Its effects will n ot be negated or delayed. Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target an enemy Personality: Move him home.
  The Power of a Word Political Reaction: After another player's Battle action targets your Courtier: The player may choose to lose 3 Honor. If he did not choose this, negate the action's effects. Battle: Target one to three enemy dishonorable Personalities: The shadow of their shame shall fall on their shoulders. Move them home.
  A: Yes, he can.
  The Power of a Word says "if he did not choose this". It doesn't say the negation needed to be successful. As long as the Suitengu's Torch player chooses the negation, even knowing it will fail, he does not lose the 3 honor. Jon Palmer, "Suitengu's Torch vs The Power of a Word", 11 Feb 2012
• Q: Iron Will Reaction: After another player targets your Paragon with a Battle action performed by a Personality with lower Personal Honor: The action's costs are ignored and its effects are negated. That player may take an additional Battle action.
  Suitengu's Torch Reaction: After you announce a Thunder Battle action: Its effects will not be negated or delayed. Battle: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target an enemy Personality: Move him home.
  (1)I have two questions, when i announce a thunder battle action, do i then have to use the stronghold reaction? (2)can i wait for my opponent to play some type of negation card before i announce this reaction?
  if number 2 is correct then my second question is this. if i bow my shugenja for a thunder spell, and they play Iron Will, then i react with my strongholds ability, Do i get to unbow my shungenja because the card says negate both cost and effect but my stronghold says that only the effects cannot be negated.
  Also is consider a thunder action if the personality performing it is thunder?
  A: It depends on the timing. Some negation reacts to announcing an action (Entrenched Position). If this happens, you can then use Suitengu's Torch's reaction to make the action non-negatable.
  Iron Will, however, reacts to the targeting, and therefore is played after the window in which Suitengu's Torch's reaction is usable.
  An action is a Thunder action if the card it is printed on has the Thunder keyword, or if the action itself has the Thunder keyword. Jon Palmer, "Iron Will + Suitengu's Torch", 9 Feb 2012