The Forgotten Temple

Legend of the Five Rings card from Forgotten Legacy

Card Type

Stronghold

Province Strength

7

Gold Production

4

Starting Family Honor

-1

Clan

Unaligned

Keywords

Forest, Temple

Card Text

You do not gain Honor. You may not take Political actions. You do not lose Honor from cards you own. Before you lose Honor: Reduce the loss to 1, which may not be increased.
Limited: Target your discarded Nonhuman Personality and discard a card in one of your provinces: Refill the province face-up with the Personality.

Legality

Age of Conquest (Emperor), Destroyer War (Celestial)

Deck

Pre-Game

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: Can i use House of Disgrace and Slave Pits to produce 3Gold when using TFT or Maw's Grave?
  A: No and yes, respectively.
  House of Disgrace requires you to lose the 1 honor in order to produce 3 gold - hence the use of the word "to".
  Slave Pits' honor loss is simply an effect of using the Courtesy trait - it will be negated by the strongholds, but the additional gold is still produced. Jon Palmer, "The Forgotten Temple / Maw's Grave and House of Disgrace / Slave Pits", 15 Jul 2015
• Q: Okay, so say I am a Scorpion Player... I use Ambush with Bayushi Joe to target Oni no oni. Ambush happens and resolves. At the trigger of the end of the Ambush, I use a 5 chi courtier (Let's say Nitoshi for this example) to rhetoric the honor losses to the player against me who is playing The Forgotten Temple as a stronghold.
  Now the question is, since traits come before reactions, does this mean that the opponent still loses 5 honor? Or only one? My understanding is that since the traits come before the reactions (also since I am active player) it is too late for The Forgotten Temple's trait to activate.
  Is this correct?
  Thanks in advance!
  Relevant Text: The Forgotten Temple You do not gain Honor. You may not take Political actions. You do not lose Honor from cards you own. Before you lose Honor: Reduce the loss to 1, which may not be increased. Rhetoric Political Reaction: Before a player gains or loses Honor from an action's effects, bow your performing Courtier: Choose another player. If the Courtier's Chi is higher than or equal to the Honor gain or loss, the chosen player instead of the original player takes the gain or loss. Ambush Limited: Choose your performing unbowed Personality and target another player's Personality: Create a battlefield (not at any province). Assign your Personality to attack there. Assign the target to defend there, even if he is bowed. Other Personalities will not move there. Fight a battle there (after this action's resolution). After the battle ends, lose 5 Honor.
  A: When the subject of honour loss is changed, a new timing window is opened for traits, effects and Reactions which trigger "Before a player loses honour" - it's the same honour loss, but the player is different. Alex Jones, "Rhetoric and The Forgotten Temple (Timing)", 6 Dec 2012
• Q: So if a person is playing with The Forgotten Temple and has a personality with personal honor who gets dishonored and dies will he lose honor from the personality.
  http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=8094,#hashid=535185de64822840d8dd2453a4e17123,#cardcount=2
  http://rules.l5r.com/EE_Glossary_F
  From Some things check to see if costs, effects, actions, targeting, or other game procedures come “from” a given source. The source is the card that the effect, action or targeting is printed on, or the rulebook if it is printed there. There are three exceptions: Targeting and destruction by Ranged Attacks come from the card that created the Ranged Attack, not the rulebook. A Personality’s destruction for having 0 Chi comes from the cost or effect that last gave the Personality a Chi penalty, or from the rulebook if there was no such cost or effect. Costs and effects of traits and abilities given to other cards, copied from other cards, or on created cards, come from the card they are currently on. Effects "from" battle resolution, such as destruction or Honor gain, refer only to the rulebook effects of battle resolution.
  We were thinking the honor loss is from the rule book effect and not the card so they would lose honor. Was this correct?
  A: Yes, you are correct. The honor loss from a Personality dying while dishonorable comes from the rulebook. If the Personality has greater than 1 base Personal Honor, Forgotten Temple's trait will still reduce the loss to 1.
  Please note that in War of Honor, this loss can contribute to a player advancing on the dishonor track, but that's due to the specifics of the dishonor track in War of Honor. Jon Palmer, "The Forgotten Temple and dishonored people", 22 Jul 2012
• Q: Hi Guys,
  This question came up in conversation this evening I felt it needed a Rules Forum clarification.
  If a holding has been targeted multiple times by Scars of War say in this example 3 times and then the holding bows will the Forgotten Temple player lose 1 or 3 honour as the honos is coming from 3 separate sources.
  Scars of war relevant text Political Limited: Bow your performing Courtier and target a Holding: Until the game ends, after each time it bows or an ability on it resolves, its controller loses 1 Honor.
  Forgotten Temple relevant text You do not gain Honor. You may not take Political actions. You do not lose Honor from cards you own. Before you lose Honor: Reduce the loss to 1, which may not be increased.
  On a related tangent if a player bow a Recruitment officer that has been targeted with Scars of War to make a person (i.e Bows it and uses an ability on it) will they lose 2 honour?
  Thanks in advance
  Azrael
  A: When the Holding bows, each Scars of War that has been played on it creates a separate honour loss, which individually trigger The Forgotten Temple's trait: you will lose 3 honour.
  Similarly, the honour losses from Scars of War for the Holding bowing and for its ability resolving are separate, and individually trigger The Forgotten Temple's trait: you will lose 2 honour. Alex Jones, "Scars of War and The Forgotten Temple", 3 Jan 2012
• Q: If I'm playing out of The Forgotten Temple and I do some action where my opponent plays The Power of the Word in response, do I have to lose the 3 honor or can The Forgotten Temple reduce the loss to 1 and still had the effect of my action happen?
  The Power of a Word
  The Forgotten Temple
  A: Per the wording on The Power of a Word, all the player needs to do to have his effects happen is choose to lose the 3 honor. If that loss is later modified it will not then negate the effects. Jon Palmer, "The Power of a Word and The Forgotten Temple", 3 Jan 2012
• Q: Am I correct to say that The Forgotten Temple makes no distinction between dead and discarded personalities in your discard pile and therefore allows you to place a dead Nonhuman back into a province to be replayed?
  A: No, you are not.
  Discarded (emphasis mine): "The state of a card in the discard pile that is not dead, regardless of how it got in the discard pile." Brook Cunningham, "Forgotten Temple + Dead Nonhumans", 1 Aug 2011
• Q: Ninjas versus monsters. I watched this in an anime!
  Hidden Moon Dojo Open: Look at all face-down cards in a target player's provinces. If you destroy a province this turn, its owner will not refill provinces during his next Action Phase.
  The Forgotten Temple Limited: Target your discarded Nonhuman Personality and discard a card in one of your provinces: Refill the province face-up with the Personality.
  Never Stand Alone Limited: Target a discarded (not dead) Personality you own. Put the Personality face-up in one of your provinces, discarding a card from it if necessary.
  Let's assume that the Scorpion player has done everything necessary to trigger the "will not refill" clause of his stronghold's ability. The way the Hidden Moon Dojo effect works has been fairly well discussed. However, it has also been established that not all effects that cause a new card to appear in a province constitute refilling for the purposes of the effect. This ruling regarding Hidden Moon Dojo's interactions with Never Stand Alone, for example: "putting a card into a province from the discard pile" is not "refilling". On the other hand, although Forgotten Temple's action is very like Never Stand Alone, they are worded differently, with the nonhuman stronghold explicitly using the verb "refill" for a card relocation process otherwise visually identical to the earlier "putting."
  If a Forgotten Temple player uses his stronghold action while under the effects of the Hidden Moon Dojo action, what happens? Does the discarded nonhuman go in the province (as it would via Never Stand Alone), ignoring the Hidden Moon Dojo effect? Or does the Scorpion stronghold prevent that; if so, after the Action phase, when Hidden Moon Dojo is no longer in effect, what card does refill that province? Is it the one that Forgotten Temple targeted? And, if it is, does it refill face-up?
  A: As you said, Forgotten Temple explicitly uses the word "refill". While its effects are similar to Never Stand Alone, because of this very distinction, Hidden Moon Dojo's effects WILL prevent The Forgotten Temple's ability from refilling the province face-up with the Personality you targeted. It will refill normally, face-down with the top card of your Dynasty deck, after the Action Phase ends. Brook Cunningham, "Hidden Moon Dojo/The Forgotten Temple", 12 Jul 2011
• Q: I see, that makes sense. Do you know why The Forgotten Temple and The Maw's Grave are listed as "unaligned" in oracle instead of "shadowlands"?
  A: Because they're not Shadowlands. That Faction was removed in Samurai Edition. Brook Cunningham, "Sun and Moon #rules-questions", 21 May 2025