The Thriving Light

Legend of the Five Rings card from The Harbinger

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Keywords

Unique, Political

Card Text

Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero).
Battle: Target a Terrain: Destroy it.
Limited: Target a Region: Destroy it.
Open: Target an attachment: Bow it.

Focus Value

2

Legality

Destroyer War (Celestial)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rules Q&A

• Q: How would it work with The Thriving Light?
  A: Pronoun trouble. By "it" here, I am guessing you mean Formal Apology?
  Also, do you mean that you are playing The Thriving Light in response to the action causing the honor loss, or Only Actions Speak? Zen Faulkes, "Formal Apology timing", 2 Oct 2011
• Q: Does the Thriving Light allow you to choose whether you want to reduce an honor gain or an honor loss?
  A: Clarifications above are needed to be absolutely sure we're answering what we think we're answering. But there is a previous ruling that may help; it points out that The Thriving Light just looks for the next change in Honor. There is no choice involved. See: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82601 Zen Faulkes, "Formal Apology timing", 2 Oct 2011
• Q: If my opponent were to play Arranged Guilt and I was to react with Thriving Light, (A) he would not lose the honor because his loss is first and I end up losing 3 honor? Or (B) can i wait til after he loses the 3 honor then react with Thriving Light to reduce my loss of 3 honor? I would think its (A) because my opportunity to play Thriving Light happens after my opponent dishonors and destroys his Courtier or Magistrate.
  Arranged Guilt Political Limited: Dishonor and destroy your target unbowed Courtier or Magistrate Personality: Dishonor another player's target Personality. You, then that Personality's owner, each lose 3 Honor.
  The Thriving Light Political • Unique Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero). Battle: Destroy a target Terrain. Limited: Destroy a target Region. Open: Bow a target attachment.
  A: "Trigger" is used in a broad sense, and it is not formally defined as a game term. Your impression that triggers are indicated by certain words is just an impression, not a rule.
  In this case, the honor loss is indeed a "trigger" for the effect of Thriving Light. Zen Faulkes, "Thriving Light questions", 3 Mar 2011
• Q: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=85090#p1122819
  The Thriving Light Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero).
  With reference to the same question/scenario. My honor at 20, gained 10, played hidden scandal, gain 4 honor from peep, opponent play proper deference, then if i were to play Thriving light to negate the loss? Because Proper deference creates -14 honor loss. So:
  a) I negate the first 5 honor loss, but doesn't trigger hidden scandal, so i still lose another 5 (due to -9 honor loss balance), making my honor 29. b) I negate the first 5 honor loss, hidden scandal considers as triggered, so i do not lose honor. making my honor 34.
  I'm more inclined to say it's scenario (a), but I'm checking with you guys to be sure.
  A: It's SORT OF your scenario "a)".
  The mild catch is that The Thriving Light isn't negation, it's a reduction. But otherwise, you're correct. Before you lose the 14 Honor, it'll reduce your -14 from Proper Deference to -9, then you'll lose 5 of that nine, which will then trigger Hidden Scandal and the remaining -4 will be negated. Brook Cunningham, "Proper Deference and Hidden Scandal", 22 Jul 2010
• Q: Is it legal for The Thriving Light's reaction to reduce Only Actions Speak's honor negation to 0...?
  A: No. A negation isn't a loss or a gain. Brook Cunningham, "Only Actions Speak + The Thriving Light", 13 Jul 2010
• Q: i really think that OAS can be "negated" with deeds and Words or The thriving light
  A: Not in the scenario you describe.
  As noted above, Only Actions Speak is always going to take effect before the Reaction in your step 3. That you are the active player does not matter here.
  Also, I would like to point out that you significantly changed the question. In the original question in this thread, the person announcing the action was not the one playing Only Actions Speak; in your question, they are one and the same. Changing the active player can change a lot in L5R; it doesn't in this case, but I just wanted to make note of it. Zen Faulkes, "Only Actions Speak and The Thriving Light", 14 Jun 2010
• Q: The rules wiki has been updated, and now setting family honor to a value is now considered a gain or loss. I understand it is more filling a vacuum than a clarification. However, I'd like to point out this is a rules decision that clashes with precedent such as Tortoise Ambassador, where setting family honor was explicitly not an honor loss (and therefore it couldn't be copied, modified or redirected).
  A: Tortoise Ambassador has explicit text stating that the reduction of honour is not treated as an honour loss: it sets no precedent for cards without such text.
  Proper Deference has no such text. The reduction of the player's honour is an honour loss. Alex Jones, "Proper Deference and The Thriving Light", 8 Jun 2010
• Q: Setting a Personality's stats to a number involves giving it a bonus or penalty to its current value to reach the set number. Does setting Family Honor to a number similarly involve a bonus or penalty?
  A: Let's be clear about something up front:
  http://rules.l5r.com/CE_The_Player#Family_Honor: "Family Honor... follows different rules than card stats." Emphasis added. Zen Faulkes, "Proper Deference and The Thriving Light", 5 Jun 2010
• Q: OAS reacts when the action is announced... and has a delayed effect that triggers AFTER the action's resolution.
  A: It also has an immediate effect that lasts until the action resolves. The immediate effect is in play, and negates Honor gains at that time before The Thriving Light affects it. Just as the previous answer said. Zen Faulkes, "Only Actions Speak and The Thriving Light", 4 Jun 2010
• Q: Hello!
  I announce an action that will produce an honor gain, like Wall of Honor for example. My opponent reacts during the announcement of the action with Only Actions Speak. Before the resolution of the action, I react with The Thriving Light. Now, which of the two reactions will affect the honor gain first? Does it matter whose turn it is? And if my Thriving Light reduces the gain to 0 before O.A.S. affects it, am I right to think that the rest of my honor gains for the phase will not be affected either? Thanks a bunch!
  Relevant Texts: The Thriving Light Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero)
  Only Actions Speak Reaction: After an action is announced: Negate all Honor gains until after the action's resolution. At that time if this negated any gains, negate all Honor gains until the end of this phase and draw a card.
  A: Only Actions Speak "wins".
  See Timing sequence: If two or more reactions, triggered traits, or rules procedures are triggered at the same point in time, follow this sequence from A through C to decide their order. A. Apply any ongoing or continuous effects that negate, prevent, or substitute the occurrence that defines the trigger, making the occurrence not happen in the first place. ... B. Anything that is triggered at this point but is not a Reaction happens now. ... C. Reactions may now be taken following an action round procedure. ... The order of resolution means that triggered effects that come first, due to the above order, the order of Reactions, or the active player’s decision, can negate or otherwise make impossible triggered effects and Reactions that come later. When this happens, Reactions to the now nonexistent trigger may not be taken, and other triggered effects fail to occur. The reduction of a change to a number to zero (for example, reducing a loss, gain, bonus or penalty) by a non-Reaction effect timed “before” the loss or gain has a special interaction with these timing rules. Such a reduction is not a negation or prevention, so it is not applied at step A. It is instead applied at step B.
  Only Actions Speak negates the honour gain so it triggers in step A; The Thriving Light reduces the honour gain, so it would trigger in step B, except that Only Actions Speak has already negated it. Alex Jones, "Only Actions Speak and The Thriving Light", 4 Jun 2010
• Q: I'm pretty sure that these two rulings taken together would mean that playing The Thriving Light in response to Prepare for the Worst will not reduce the Honor gain from the latter.
  A: That's correct.
  Because the Honor gain from Prepare for the Worst is a delayed effect, it happens at a time after PftW's Resolution starts and ends. The Thriving Light would only reduce a gain that happens DURING that time. Brook Cunningham, "The Thriving Light and Prepare for the Worst", 1 May 2010
• Q: The Thriving Light: Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero).
  Courtesy: Bushido Virtue Battle: Target your unbowed honorable Samurai Personality: Move him and a target enemy Personality home. Each Personality’s controller gains Honor equal to the Personal Honor of the other Personality.
  My Question: If my opponent uses Courtesy and I use Thriving Light which of the following happens:
  A. His honor gain is reduced by 5. B. Both Honor Gains are reduced by 5. C. The total honor gain is reduced by 5. IF this is the case who would get the extra?
  A: The honor gain is simultaneous, so the active player chooses which honor gain would happen first (and consequently which gain would be negated).
  Remember: Active player = Players whose turn it is. Dan Jacobson, "The Thriving Light vs Courtesy", 14 Apr 2010
• Q: To be clear, The Thriving Light must be played immediately before the challenge is issued, before the opponent chooses to accept or refuse, correct?
  A: In a case where the challenge being issued is the action's first effect, that is correct. Thriving Light must be played before Resolution, where an action's effects begin to resolve. Brook Cunningham, "The Thriving Light + Hamstrung", 2 Apr 2010
• Q: So, there is no way to wait and see if my opponent focuses hamstrung or wins the duel first, I must play the Thriving Light before I know if either of those things are going to happen, right?
  A: Correct. Brook Cunningham, "The Thriving Light + Hamstrung", 2 Apr 2010
• Q: MacBeth2001 said "Since Focus Effects aren't actions, their resolution (which occurs during the resolution of Steel on Steel) wouldn't trigger The Thriving Light." this means that hamstrung's honor gain would go through.
  A: No, that's not what my statement means. Alex is correct, and my post has no bearing upon his.
  The answer I gave was in response to being asked if a player could wait until Focus Effects began resolving to play The Thriving Light's Reaction. I was only saying that a Focus Effect's resolution is not a valid trigger to play The Thriving Light. Brook Cunningham, "The Thriving Light + Hamstrung", 29 Mar 2010
• Q: Regarding this viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82601
  The only question I have is in regards to timing. The Thriving Light relevant text is Reaction: Before an action's resolution: Until that resolution ends, reduce the next Honor gain or loss by 5 (minimum zero).
  When exactly does a Duel action resolve? If someone plays Steel on Steel in a battle may I wait until after Focus effects are revealed but before they resolve to play The Thriving Light as Steel on Steel hasn't resolved yet?
  A: An action begins resolving in its Resolution Step.
  This is the step that comes after Announcing it, making Required Targeting, and Paying Costs and where its effect begin being applied. In the case of Steel on Steel, its first effect is the issuing of the challenge. So, just before that is when you would React with The Thriving Light.
  Since Focus Effects aren't actions, their resolution (which occurs during the resolution of Steel on Steel) wouldn't trigger The Thriving Light Brook Cunningham, "The Thriving Light + Hamstrung", 29 Mar 2010
• Q: in response to this:
  http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=82601
  according to AkodoGilador, The Thriving Light will stop Hamstrung's effects. But Focus effects are not actions so how can Thriving Light be used to stop it? Is Hamstrung's honor gain effect considered part of the duels effects during resolution?
  A: The Thriving Light's Reaction isn't triggered by a gain or loss of honour: it's triggered by an action's resolution being about to happen. Furthermore, the honour loss or negate reduced by The Thriving Light is not required to have come from the action it's triggering off, merely that it occurs during the resolution of that action.
  The Thriving Light's Reaction will reduce the first gain or loss during that resolution which can be of any type, including an honour gain or loss from that action, from a rulebook effect (for example an honour loss due to a Personality dying dishonourably) or from a trait (which includes Focus Effects). It won't reduce an honour loss or gain from a delayed effect, such as the 5 honour loss from Ambush, since that occurs after the Ambush action's resolution. Alex Jones, "The Thriving Light + Hamstrung", 26 Mar 2010
• Q: My opponent uses Impromptu Duel targetting my personality. I have The Thriving Light in hand. What I'd like to do is one of the following: 1) If my opponent uses Hamstrung's Focus Effect, I'd like to reduce that gain to 0. 2) If my opponent wins the duel, I'd like to reduce the 2 honor gain from Impromptu Duel to 0. 3) If my opponent neither wins the duel nor focuses Hamstrung, I would like to have not played my Thriving Light.
  So the question is, what is the timing of playing The Thriving Light for options 1 and 2? 1) If I want to reduce the honor from Hamstrung's Focus Effect, when do I play The Thriving Light? 2) If I want to reduce the honor gain for Impromptu Duel (the 2 honor for winning the duel), can I play that after the outcome of the duel is decided, or is that too late? Do I have to play it before the duel starts?
  A: You cannot choose the timing for The Thriving Light: it can only be played "Before an action's resolution". If you play it, you cannot choose which honour gain or loss will be reduced. It will reduce the first honour gain or loss by 5 and no other.
  If your opponent uses Hamstrung's Focus Effect to try to gain honour (and no other gain or loss has occured first), The Thriving Light will reduce that gain to zero. If your opponent wins the duel, and would gain 2 honour from doing so (and no other gain or loss has occured first), The Thriving Light will reduce that gain to zero. If your opponent neither wins the duel nor focuses Hamstrung, your The Thriving Light will probably have been wasted. Alex Jones, "The Thriving Light + Hamstrung", 26 Mar 2010