Utter Defeat

Legend of the Five Rings card from Samurai Edition, Shadowlands

Card Type

Strategy

Gold Cost

0

Card Text

Reaction: Before a Personality is destroyed by a battle resolution or for losing a duel: He is completely humiliated. Negate the destruction. Dishonor him. While he remains in play, negate his rehonoring, he may not be targeted by the Rulebook Order Seppuku action, and his controller loses 1 Honor after each of his Dynasty Phases begins.

Focus Value

1

Legality

Clan Wars (Imperial), Race for the Throne (Samurai)

Deck

Fate

Printings

Rulings

• You still do not gain honor from events the dishonored Personality participates in, despite the fact that he will not be restored to honor. [rulebook] Accumulated Rulings, February 8, 2000, p. 61
• Erratum: Reads, "Utter Defeat 0G 1FV Reaction: Before a Personality is destroyed by a battle resolution or for losing a duel: He is completely humiliated. Negate the destruction. Dishonor him. While he remains in play, he cannot be rehonored, cannot commit seppuku except from a card’s effect, and his controller loses 1 Honor after each of his Dynasty Phases begins." [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007] Comprehensive Rules, Samurai Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, May 2009, p. 168

Rules Q&A

• Q: Can I use the reaction of Blade of Truths, naming focus value 1, to stop the use of Utter Defeat in a duel? Or will the Utter Defeat be played after the Blade's effect has ended?
  A: Utter Defeat is played before the Personality is killed, which happens during duel resolution. That's still during the duel. Blade of Truths will prevent it. Jeff Alexander, "post for 7 June 2002", 8 Jun 2002
• Q: May I use "A greater Destiny" or "Utter Defeat" in one of my own bowed personalities?
  A: No and no. These are also used before the Personality dies. Jeff Alexander, "post for 16 January 2002", 17 Jan 2002
• Q: Whether I play (Uteer Defeat) on my own or another player's personality, would the battle's winner gain honor for his destruction?
  A: No.
  You gain honor only for things you actually destroy. The Personality was not destroyed, because destruction was negated (card text). Zen Faulkes, "Utter Defeat and Battle Resolution Honor Gain", 1 Jun 2008
• Q: What if the guy I'm swapping is dishonored, is he still dishonored, or rehonored? What if said person was targeted with Arrival of the Obsidian Champion? Or Utter Defeat?
  A: I believe this covers all 3 of the above questions (as the second two were follow-ups, in case I said "rehonored", which I'm not):
  http://rules.l5r.com/Physically_marked_card_states#Honorable_and_dishonorable: "A Personality out of play can be dishonorable if he or she is face-up. Leaving or entering play does not change a Personality’s dishonorable or honorable status." Brook Cunningham, "Kharmic Confrontation and attachments", 11 May 2008
• Q: After searching the rules forum and reading the comprehensive rules site on timing, I still haven't figured this out
  I have played Heated Discussion. My opponent eventually loses the battle. Can i play Utter Defeat, timed at the battle resolution segment, on one of his personalities?
  A: No. Destruction is never going to occur under Heated Discussion, so there is no trigger for Utter Defeat. http://rules.l5r.com/Glossary_I-J#Instead. Zen Faulkes, "Heated Discussion and Utter Defeat timing issue", 23 Jan 2008
• Q: If a Spider Clan player plays Utter Defeat on his own personality does he still lose the honor?
  A: No. Zen Faulkes, "Utter Defeat and Spider Clan", 10 Aug 2007
• Q: I somehow manage to play Utter Defeat, thus my opponent has a dishonored personality that cannot be rehonored or commit seppuku. What would happen if that personality performs any action that results in an honor gain?
  A: Honor gains are negated, because the Personality cannot be rehonored "instead." Glossary: "If the old Y is negated, or fails to happen for a reason other than negation ('do not' wording, absence of relevant game elements), the new X doesn't happen." Zen Faulkes, "Utter Defeat and honor gains", 9 Aug 2007
• Q: [Jade]
  https://oracleofthevoid.com/#game=l5r,#cardid=9122,#cnprintingid=2
  I’ve seen Utter Defeat had an erratum in SE of “being destroyed at ballte resolution.
  Just checking this was not like that under Jade rules, wasn’t it?
  In Jade you could Utter Defeat a character being killed say by a ranged attack during battle. Am I right? Also, I cannot Utter Defeat a character dead by Wedge (same [Jade] context), correct? As Wedge kills after the battle not at battle and even though if it were in battle I couldn ‘t target. Where as I can Feing Death (since the 2004 ruling won’t apply)
  A: The SL printing says "by a duel or battle". It does not say "during battle" but "by a... battle", therefore it seems that the original could also only react to Battle Resolution, which is the only time a "battle" itself is destroying the Personality. The SE MRP is clearer, but I do not think it is a "change". Brook Cunningham, "Sun and Moon #rules-questions", 26 Oct 2026
• Q: [Imperial]
  When a Personality with Utter Defeat effects die and I bring it back with Feign Death, does it still have the UD effects?
  A: I can't find a contemporary Ruling on the matter, so I think "while they are alive" should be considered a fixed, ongoing duration that ends when they die, just like the SE reprint that explicitly states "while they remain in play". Thus, dying would end the effect, and using the Imperial Feign Death would bring the back without it (though they would still be dishonorable). Brook Cunningham, "Sun and Moon #rules-questions", 6 Oct 2026
• Q: [Imperial]
  Will the Egg copy inherit the Utter Defeat trait, like the 1 honor loss per turn, etc?
  A: Yes. Clarifications to Egg indicate that it copies current ongoing permanent effects on its target, which would include the effects of Utter Defeat. Brook Cunningham, "Sun and Moon #rules-questions", 4 Oct 2026
• Q: [Imperial]
  If I use Fight For My Favor against a lobbying personality and I win the duel and I use Utter Defeat so it doesn't die, can I still react with Political Mistake, targeting the personality?
  A: This is a difficult question to answer from an Imperial-Rules perspective, and also highlights that my Oracle wording of "Fight For My Favor" may be incomplete, due to its original wording being somewhat loosey goosey and me not filling in all the gaps. 😛 Also, the Oracle text of none of the cards was written from a "Classic Lobbying" perspective, so it is hard to judge what may be considered a "success" or not from Politcal Mistake's perspective in an Imperial environment, and also because "success" itself is/was ill-defined in any contemporary Rulebook, only implicitly (but not explicitly) tied to outmoded concepts like "canceling" being somehow distinct and different than negation. Brook Cunningham, "Sun and Moon #rules-questions", 16 Apr 2025