Bayushi Tsimaru

Legend of the Five Rings card from Samurai Edition, Enemy of My Enemy

Card Type

Personality

Force

6

Chi

4

Honor Requirement

-

Gold Cost

10

Personal Honor

1

Clan

Scorpion

Keywords

Unique, Experienced, Samurai, Scorpion Clan

Card Text

Other players may not target Tsimaru with Political actions.
Reaction: Twice per turn, before a unit moves, negate the movement.

Legality

Age of Enlightenment (Lotus), Race for the Throne (Samurai), Rain of Blood (Diamond)

Deck

Dynasty

Printings

Rulings

• Erratum: Reads, “Bayushi Tsimaru 6F/4C –HR 10G 1PH Scorpion Clan • Samurai • Experienced • Unique Other players cannot target Tsimaru with Political actions. Reaction: Twice per turn, before a unit moves: Negate the movement.” [MRP, Samurai Edition, 25 July 2007] Comprehensive Rules, Samurai Edition, with specific card rulings, final version, May 2009, p. 125

Rules Q&A

• Q: With regards to this Current Ruling.
  Based upon how this ruling reads, is the following scenario legal?
  My opponent announces a political action, say Shosuro Maru XP2, targeting one of my personalities. I, in turn, bow one of my monks to play Brand of Fire and Thunder, and redirect his action to Bayushi Tsimaru XP (since the original source of targeting still remains my opponent).
  A: Targets must still be legal.
  Shosuro Maru exp2's ability is Political. Assuming you are not Maru's controller, Bayushi Tsimaru exp is not a legal target for the action.
  You however, may choose to target Maru's controller's Bayushi Tsimaru exp with Brand of Fire and Thunder's Political Reaction. Dan Jacobson, "Tsimaru XP, Brand of Fire and Thunder, Maru XP2", 14 Apr 2009
• Q: Ok, in accordance with this:http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=71126
  Let's say I have the exact same situation. My opponent is attacking with Bayushi Tsimaru Experinced, who has used his ability once this turn and I defend with two personalities, X and Y. He plays sneak attack and uses his first action to bow both of my people.
  I attempt to Surprsing Resistance with personality X, and my opponent negates the cost by negating the movement of personality X. Am I now allowed to attempt to pay the cost by moving personality Y home, or is the action lost forever?
  A: Sorry, your action still fizzles.
  You've already targeted Personality X, so you must use him to pay Surprising Resistence's cost, as seen here.
  Ironically, that link actually answers your first question, too! Really, the Search function of the forum is quite useful; if I wasn't obsessed with showing off how smartsy I am, I could've linked Marty Lund's answer in the first place and saved you the trouble of following up. Sorry about that. Brook Cunningham, "Paying costs and negations", 2 Oct 2008
• Q: My opponent attacks me with Bayushi Tsimaru (Experienced) who has used his reaction once this turn. I defend with personality X. My opponent uses Sneak Attack and bows Personality X as his first action. I attempt to send my personality home with Surprising Resistance. My opponent negates my movement home. At this point, the cost has been negated, but I can still legally pay it.
  A: As it says in the second paragraph from the CR above, you can actually no longer legally pay the cost. So you: Brook Cunningham, "Paying costs and negations", 1 Oct 2008
• Q: If I control an oposed berseker at the battlefield and use Furious Assault on a oposing personality, when he make his choice to move home I negate the movement with Bayushi Tsimaru, do the personality bows due to the efects of Furious Assault?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Choices: "A choice involving multiple effects following a 'may' must be taken in an all-or-none fashion, unless they are phrased as alternatives to each other using 'or.'"
  (Fixed.) Zen Faulkes, "Furious Assault & negating", 13 Mar 2008
• Q: In reference to Marty's answer to this question about Daidoji Murasaki, Greater Sacrifice and Bayushi Tsimaru.
  After the third step described in Marty's answer ("Tsimaru negates the movement"), is it really allowed to pay the cost by destroying the targeted unbowed Samurai Personality ?
  Indeed Murasaki's Recon's text uses 'instead' which makes me wonder whether such substitution of cost can be reversed : doesn't 'instead' imply that once this alternate optional cost is chosen, it substitutes itself for the original cost, which can no longer be chosen later ?
  According to "Glossary, Instead" and the second example of substitution here, doubt consumes me so I'd like a small piece of explanation please.
  Thanks in advance.
  A: The Rules Team will have a little discussion about this.
  I do not believe the distinction between the two substitution examples accurately reflect the current templates on alternative cost-payment options. In particular, I can't find any Samurai-legal cards are printed with the phrasing closer to Example #1 than Example #2. This would make the alternative payment clauses in the costs section of the rulebook largely moot outside of Gold Production in practice. Martin Lund, "Daidoji Murasaki+Greater Sacrifice vs Bayushi Tsimaru", 21 Feb 2008
• Q: As it seems that my question wasn't clear enought I will rewrite it. These are the cards involved
  Daidoji Murasaki Recon Open: Target a province. During battles at its battlefield, whenever you would destroy any of your Personalities as a cost, you may pay the cost by moving them home instead.
  Greater Sacrifice Battle: Destroy one of your target unbowed Samurai Personalities: Destroy a target unit opposing him with total Force less than or equal to your Samurai's total unit Force, plus his Personal Honor if your Family Honor is higher than its starting value.
  Bayushi Tsimaru Reaction: Twice per turn, before a unit moves: Negate the movement.
  Now the situation. I targe a province with Daidoji Murasaki as an open action. After that a attack is declared both players assing Personalitys there. I assing 3 Samurais and it my first action, I play Grater Sacrifice. Due my Recon Open I don't destroy my Samurai and try to pay the cost by moving him home. But there is a Bayushi Tsimaru on my opponents side and he reacts and negates the movement. Now that is the Problem, what to do now.
  Referring to this topic: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=60461&p=773636&hilit=stay+your+blade+tsimaru#p773636 The movent is negated and the action is canceled.
  Referring to the Comprehensive Rules: If any specific payment of a cost is negated, delayed, or made impossible in the process of paying costs, the player paying the costs may use alternate available sources to pay that cost, or may choose not to pay the cost.
  However, if the cost was a change to the state of something in the game, and the change was negated, delayed or made impossible, the same change to the same card may not then be used as an alternate payment. [ADDED Oct 22 2007] I would try to pay the cost by a alternate source, so one of my other Samurais at the battlefield.
  So what is the right way?
  Edit: Thanks for move it here. Wasn't shure if I can post it here.
  A: 1.) Target one of your unbowed Samurai Personalities 2.) Attempt to pay the cost by sending him home, thanks to Daidoji Murasaki's ability 3.) Tsimaru negates the movement, causing the cost to not be successfully paid
  Now you can either choose to:
  A.) let the action fail
  OR
  B.) pay the cost by destroying the unbowed Samurai Personality you targeted
  But you may not choose to attempt to send the target home again, nor can you attempt to pay the cost by sending home or destroying any Personality other than the original target. Martin Lund, "Daidoji Murasaki+Greater Sacrifice vs Bayushi Tsimaru", 20 Feb 2008
• Q: Is it possible to cancle the action by negating the movement?
  A: Which action?
  If movement is a cost, preventing movement will prevent effects. If it isn't, it won't, because effects are independent. Zen Faulkes, "Daidoji Murasaki+Greater Sacrifice vs Bayushi Tsimaru", 17 Feb 2008
• Q: Ok, lets start this...
  First, all involve Bayushi Tsimaru (experienced)
  Scorpion Clan • Samurai • Experienced • Unique Other players can not target Tsimaru with Political actions. Reaction: Twice per turn, before a unit moves: Negate the movement.
  Ok lets go...
  A - Fusami uses her Battle, Tsimaru negates the movement, What happen? Does the challenge still goes on? The card dont say that if it moved...
  Fusami
  Reaction: After another player's target Personality assigns or moves to an army attacking you: Fusami moves to the target's location and challenges him. The challenge may be refused; if it is refused, bow the target and move him home. Destroy the loser.
  B - Overhelming speed says:
  Overwhelming Speed
  Battle: Target one of your Cavalry units: Bow and move home a target enemy Infantry unit with less Force.
  If Tsimaru negates its movement, does the personality still bows? Can Tsimaru even try to negate the movement, for that he must bow first then move, following the card text?
  A: You want the FAQ, methinks.
  http://rules.l5r.com/FAQ#Is_an_action_l ... _happen.3F Zen Faulkes, "Bayushi Tsimaru And movements...", 30 Nov 2007
• Q: There are several cards in Samurai edition that negate effects. In many cases, the effects might be part of a larger effect. For example, Knowledge or The End Is Near. On some of these below, it states that one should negate the movement or destruction.
  Reaction: Twice per turn, before a unit moves: Negate the movement.
  Reaction: Before a card effect would destroy Yaheiko: Negate the destruction.
  Do these negations negate the entire named effect or merely to the target of effect being negated?
  For Example: Bayushi Tsimaru moves home with Knowledge. He negates the movement. Does he stay and the targeted personality leave or do both stay at the battle?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Negating_effects
  Knowledge has two separate movement effects. Negating one will not negate the other. Chris Fuchs, "Effect Negation", 30 Oct 2007
• Q: I play Determination, and then announce that I am taking Bayushi Saya's Open action. For abilities and actions such as Bayushi Saya's, where targeting is performed in the effects portion of the card, would the application of Determination allow the targeting of Bayushi Tsimaru XP, since the action's effects can not be negated?
  A: No. http://rules.l5r.com/Effects#Definition_of_effects: "Restrictions, targeting, and costs are not effects." (EMphasis added.) Zen Faulkes, "Determination, Bayushi Tsimaru XP, Targeting/Effects", 10 Sep 2007
• Q: In this post, it was asked if you could bow and send home a different personality for Stay Your Blade if Tsimaru xp negates the first movement.
  My question is this. Paying of costs (bowing and moving home in the case of Stay Your Blade) happens after targets are chosen for the action. Does this mean that if costs are prevented that you can change what targets are chosen for an action, since Stay Your Blade requires targeting a samurai?
  Stay Your Blade: Battle: Bow and move home one of your target opposed Samurai Personalities: Draw three cards.
  Bayushi Tsimaru Experienced: Reaction: Twice per turn, before a unit moves: Negate the movement.
  A: Ah, good point. Fixing. Zen Faulkes, "Stay your blade and Tsimaru xp again3", 15 Aug 2007
• Q: Can the "alternate available sources" be to send home the same target personality home again, after Tsimaru negates his 1. movement?
  A: No.
  http://rules.l5r.com/Costs_and_restrict ... nd_changes: "Effects that prevent or negate the change will also prevent or negate the cost payment." Zen Faulkes, "Bayushi Tsimaru Exp again", 13 Aug 2007
• Q: Original Thread
  If Bayushi Tsimaru Exp negates the paying of the move home cost of Stay Your Blade, can you attempt to move him home again just like in Lotus Edition and pretty much every edition before that?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Costs_and_restrict ... tory_costs: "If, due to interference from other effects, a mandatory cost cannot be paid at the point when it must be paid:
  "No remaining costs need be paid, but costs already paid are not refunded.
  "No effects of the action or trait resolve, and the ability or trait is considered to have been 'used.' Zen Faulkes, "Bayushi Tsimaru Exp vs paying costs of moving home", 13 Aug 2007
• Q: What happens if I play Stay Your Blade and my opponent negates the movement?
  A: http://rules.l5r.com/Abilities_and_actions#C._Pay_costs: "If paying an action’s mandatory costs is interfered with between announcing it and this step, no effects of the action resolve; the ability is considered to have been used; and the action is considered to have been taken, but not resolved." Zen Faulkes, "Stay Your Blade and Bayushi Tsimaru", 12 Aug 2007